What could be done to combat speeding on our roads?

Michael Wrigley‍ I've also seen in France (on the Toll roads) the number plates of speeding vehicles being displayed on the overhead signage with a request to slow down.  Ralentis s'il te plait! ? 


A more public 'name and shame' tactic as you're then looking out for that vehicle yourself to see who it is...?

Hm, we could learn a thing or two from our continental neighbours. Perhaps we could do with tougher laws and more clarity over here.

Problem is, that in the UK we see it as our right to speed if we want to (again, on the grounds that "everyone else is a bad driver whereas I'm brilliant" ? ). The attitude that "camera traps are just a money making scam" that was around for many years (possibly still is) was always interesting. I used to try suggesting to people that if they wanted to rebel against camera traps the best way would be not to speed, so that the cameras then became financially unviable, but no-one has ever seemed keen to take that idea up...


I think the laws themselves are quite clear enough, but there is little public support in the UK for them to be enforced.


This is drifting off the original topic, but there's an interesting point there, although more in the Human Factors field than ours. As I understand it (and I'm prepared to be corrected by people with wider experience if I'm wrong) there is much closer observance of the - lower and hence much more inconvenient - speed limits in the US than in the UK, which is interesting given that generally there is even more of a culture of individual freedom over there than there is here. Anyone got any idea why? (Maybe somebody will combine the words "police" and "guns", but I don't think that's the point - our police could enforce our laws perfectly effectively if there was a stronger - or indeed any - public will for them to do so.)


Cheers,


Andy

I think we are still on topic, Andy, though this discussion is becoming rather long and any "splinter" topic would warrant a new discussion. Let me tell you a short story.


I once arrived at the scene of a road accident. A car had knocked over an elderly man. An off-duty policeman happened to be on the scene and took charge of the situation. He radioed the police station for uniformed back-up, and started to direct the traffic. It was clear, from the way he did this, that he was properly trained in traffic management. His directions were so clear, precise and assertive that nobody was arguing with him, even though he was not in uniform. He told the car driver that he could not drive away, because this was an elderly man, who might be injured even if apparently OK. The driver had to wait until paramedics arrived to assess the elderly man.


This is an example of how clear and assertive directions work.


In an earlier post in this thread, I  compared the complicated ways of indicating speed limits in the UK with the very simple and clear approach in the USA. You say that you have observed much better compliance with speed limits in the USA, and I entirely agree. This is even though until fairly recently the maximum speed anywhere in this huge country was 55 mph. This is still a common speed limit on many major highways, though in some places speed limits can now be up to 75 mph. Speed humps are fairly rare in the USA - on public roads anyway - and those few that do exist are there for very good and obvious reasons.


As you say, the laws in general are clear enough but the way in  which they are indicated leaves room for improvement. The public in general know that the speed limit on a motorway is 70 mph (usually) and the speed limit in a built-up area is 30 mph (usually). Lack of clarity occurs in roads in between these types. I could take you to places where you turn off a respectable wide road, with a speed limit of 40 or 50 mph, onto a narrow, winding single-track road where the speed limit is clearly indicated as 60 mph. In the residential road where I live there is no street lighting and no 30 mph repeater signs. According to the Highway code, this means that the speed limit is 60 mph. Would you really believe that?


I think many of us would like the police to enforce laws more firmly. The police in the USA, like the police in the UK, cannot be everywhere all the time. I cannot ignore the fact that in the USA the signage gives a clear and simple message, and speed limits make sense; they don't increase as one moves from a main road to a lesser road. To bring our antiquated laws up to date would greatly assist in the laws being better observed.

I'm late to the discussion, so you may have discussed this already. 


I have noticed that people react far more positively to information that is relevant to them and their driving. Thus, signs that provide real time speeds to drivers, especially if linked to number plates seems to slow people down. So signs that show your speed and a smiley (red or green) seem to get my attention more than a standard sign, and I've seen a few occasions where my number plate has also been displayed with my speed.


With modern satnav technology that shows my speed and location, would a colour coded speedometer readout in my car, and perhaps a visual and audio warning if I exceed speeds by bigger percentages, also help? 

Thanks for joining the discussion, Maurice. There are two significant points here, relevant information and technology.


I'll deal with technology first. Undoubtedly technology can both monitor and control vehicle speeds. For many years, satnavs have been both indicating speed and warning drivers of speed limits, especially when they are exceeded. Many trucks now have speed limiters and an increasing number of cars have cruise control, making it easier for the driver to maintain a steady speed where conditions allow. To use satellite technology to control the speed of a vehicle according to the speed limit of the road it is travelling on is very feasible.


Relevant information is the source of the problem. Have you read my post of 5 June comparing the over-complicated way we indicate speed limits here with those of other countries? Even if we were to increase the involvement of technology to control vehicle speeds, I think it would be unwise not to give the driver some clear indication of the target speed. I am not sure either that we should take too much control from the drivers, otherwise they would become unaccustomed to dealing with situations where no control existed.


The real problem here is that there are still too many roads where no sensible speed limit is allocated. It is down to that outdated diagonal black bar sign, which used to mean no speed limit, and should have been phased out long ago. Instead it continues to be used as a "blanket" speed limit, and many rural roads carry this blanket speed limit even though it is totally inappropriate in many cases.


If we want to deploy technology to optimum effect, we need to ensure that EVERY road carries a SENSIBLE speed limit. I don't think this is unreasonable. My dealings with our county council suggest that it has information on pretty well every road within its area, and carries accident statistics and all kinds of statistics..


Briefly, the technology is fine but highway bureaucracy needs attention.

I'm not advocating taking away the responsibility of the driver to control the speed of the vehicle, this is fraught with danger as the trials with autonomous vehicles has shown. Too many variables for AI today to deal with, and ultimately the driver is responsible for the vehicle and has to be able to deal with rapidly unfolding incidents and emergencies.


What I was trying to get across, poorly, was that flashing road signs, road signs with speed and VRN feedback, and colour-coded speedometers in vehicles give instant 'cause and effect' feedback to the driver which is better than 'flat' feedback of normal signs.


Having driven on the continent, USA and Canada a lot, I wouldn't advocate their approach which is as he Germans call it Schilderwald (a forest of roadsigns) and very confusing.


Applying dynamic, safe, speed limits to roads would be sensible, but, the challenge would be how to do this and ensure all drivers could interact with changing speed limits.

My experience on M42, M25, etc, is that sensible variable speed limits at certain times, or traffic/accident conditions, helps the traffic flow. What adds more dangerous is the use of the hard shoulder on 'smart motorways' for extra lanes in rush hours, where cars breaking down have nowhere to go and thus cause further accidents as cars swerve out of the way when they come upon them suddenly and without warning.