Rules and Guidelines
Want to participate in the discussions? Please read our Community Rules and Guidelines. Need some help? Visit Support and Answers.

  • Replies 23 replies
  • Subscribers 24 subscribers
  • Views 438 views
  • Users 0 members are here
Options
You may also be interested in

Digital ID Cards in the UK

Adrian Hirst

It is being reported in the news this morning that the government is planning to introduce mandatory Digital ID cards, initially for a "right to work" purpose.

Forgoing the many legal and civil arguments for and against this; I wondered if people in the IET had opinions on the technical aspects.

Personally I am against what I have heard so far. There are no details on implementation yet, however with schemes like this that will usually not come until implementation long after parliamentary debate is over, so social debate cannot wait for full detail.

My main worry is that they have framed it as based around the smartphone. Saying it will be "like a bank card" (Lisa Nandy on Today). This seems (from admittedly vague and unsure descriptions from not-very-tech-savvy MPs) to be locking us into the duopoly of smartphone OSes, Apple's iOS and Google/Alphabet's Android. Neither is open source, and both are utterly controlled by businesses in the US. Obiovusly there are social concerns around forcing mandatory ID onto smartphones (it makes smartphones mandatory for one thing, despite the other worries about their effects. The same government is looking to ban them in schools!). But techincally how long will they be supported? How secure will they be? I suspect they will be very secure, but support will be expensive and tail-chasing after a while (5-10 years). Making the system web-based would be less secure, more open to abuse like DDoS attacks; but would unlink the system from operating systems. I doubt there will be any other variants, like a Linux-based way of providing your ID.

I am ok with many functions on my smartphone as they are optional, things I chose to do for convienence sake like banking and email. I am do not think this is the same. The mandatory nature should come with other support, be that physical cards for those that want to move away from these devices or businesses, or some other way to ensure that we are not destroying technical freedoms and future innovation by tying our entire society into 2 smartphone makers who already have immense influence and control, and whom the state have no sway over.

What are other people's thoughts? Any other technical issues you have concerns about (forgery, data breaches, verification)?

  • I wonder if they can tag it along with the current rollout for directors of companies is the UK:-

    Identity verification

    All company directors and people with significant control (PSCs) need to verify their identity to prove who they are. This is a new legal requirement under the Economic Crime and Corporate Transparency Act 2023 to help prevent people using companies for illegal purposes.

    Identity verification will become mandatory in autumn 2025.

  • in reply to Roger Greenwood
    Roger Greenwood said:
    The elderly are catered

    I do NOT agree with that statement at all.  Everything is going online these days, local bank branches are being closed.  The elderly are being alienated by society and the government.  Some elderly people have health issues, sight issues thus using a computer or smart phone is very difficult for them.  Some find it impossible so have to ask for assistance from a family member or friend.  Some elderly people just don't want that sort of technology in their life.

    It is not just the elderly that have issues with going online.  Some online platforms are just pure rubbish and not very easy to use or understand. 

    What safeguard will there be for when things go wrong or get hacked or breached?  What happens to the person when the device they use gets compromised?

    Question to the group.  At what age are you considered elderly?

  • in reply to Sergio Fernandez

    According to my University age children, if you use Email you are so old.... It seems the goal posts are constantly on the move. I insist on them using Email or god forbid actually calling to interact with me however, as I dont have a phone that supports anything much more advanced and their preferred chatter 'apps' don't seem to support running on what I would call a 'proper computer'. 
    It might be an idea to try something simpler like digital driving licences first.

    There may well be 80 million smartphone users (* ref) in the UK, but I suspect many of them are the same person counted multiple times as there are quite a few folk I know without one. (I'm in my late 50s and work in a technical sector....)
    Mike.

  • in reply to mapj1

    Interesting statistic given that the UK population is just over 70 million. I wonder if that statistic is more like 80 million smartphones rather than smartphone users? I have two myself, one for general use and another for incognito use i.e. when I have to pop my phone number into a website or using an app I'm not 100% sure of. It's always good fun to get a phone call or message from 'your bank' on a phone number you've never given them Joy 

    But on the subject of Digital ID, I personally don't have a problem with it as my phone knows so much about me anyway. We all basically handed over our privacy when we bought our first smartphone. 

    Not everyone has a passport or a driving licence either so a physical card to complement or be used 'instead of' a digital option would be a good idea. 

  • in reply to Lisa Miles
    Lisa Miles said:
    Not everyone has a passport or a driving licence either so a physical card to complement or be used 'instead of' a digital option would be a good idea

    Agreed

    Germany uses a national identification system based on the electronic German ID card (eID card), a credit-card-sized document featuring an embedded RFID chip

    HOWEVER

    Germany has illegal immigration issue on par with the UK.  So I say to the politicians that claim the proposed UK ID system will fix the issue they should have at look at their EU counterparts.

  • in reply to mapj1

    I am 50 years old and work in IT and I know first hand how people struggle with technology and even worse is when there are new and emerging technologies.  Sometime the marketing people are rushing ahead before the tech is established.  Anyone remember WAP phones?  Anyone actually get it to do anything WAP related to an acceptable level?  When things go digital then they need to be kept up to date which means an endless cycle of software and hardware upgrades.  Thus an ID system on your smart phone will mean that you will then be forced to upgrade it at least every 3 to 5 years but more realistically it will be every 2 years or so to remain compliant.  

  • One of my worries is that it'll apparently legitimise fraudulent situations. Q. how will they verify that the person applying for the ID is really the person the ID is for? The current ID checks (using passport/NI/driving licence/utility bill/visa checks) are presumably flawed otherwise the new system wouldn't be needed. Employers are usually in the position of being able to do face-to-face checks (does the person actually match the photo) which any on-line system will struggle to match, or be easily fooled (e.g. by AI generated likenesses, in video if necessary).

    An approach the designed out the initial problem might be a lot more attractive.

      - Andy. 

  • in reply to Lisa Miles
    Lisa Miles said:
    Not everyone has a passport or a driving licence

    And some of us (admittedly probably very few these days) only have a paper driving licence with no photo, so need both driving licence and passport together to provide photo ID with proof of address. I am thinking of giving in and finally getting a photocard driving licence since it's such a pain not having simple photo ID.

    Another elderly person issue, we found when sorting out my mum's affairs while she was still alive that the fact that she had neither driving licence nor passport proved a nightmare in proving her ID, e.g. when selling her house - even though we had power of attorney, there were times we still needed to prove who she was.

    So personally I am all for the availability of ID cards in principle, the interesting question is around "compulsory". However in practice there are already so many requirements to present "suitable" ID that I tend to feel it all becomes a bit of a subtle point.

  • in reply to Lisa Miles

    I have two myself,
    Right,  but there need to be rather more than  10 million people doing that sort of thing, or perhaps just one person with 10 million phones, or more likely something in between those 2 extremes to explain the numbers.
    It is certainly not safe to assume everyone has one, and even for those that do, that they are able to easily use it for all the options more complex than phone calls.
    Mike.

  • in reply to Roger Greenwood

    Having gone through the pain of registering for an ID, there's no way they could roll it out to the entire population.  Unless you already have government issued photo ID and a smart phone, it doesn't work.

    When I tried to do it on an ordinary desktop PC, it failed.  After asking me endless questions about my driving licence and where I live, it decided it needed to ask me additional security questions.  Then it said it couldn't think of any questions to ask me and gave up, telling me to go to a Post Office.

    When I finally did it with a smart phone, and giving it pictures of my driving licence, it finally gave me some alphanumeric ID.  Which I wrote down quick, as I have no idea how to get it back again.

    There seems to be some stupidity in a system where you need a government-issued ID in order for the government to issue you with an ID.

Community Rules & Guidelines