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6A lighting cct to supply a 13A socket

Farmboy
So, we all know about feeding lights from a socket cct, but would you do it the other way around, running on to a single 13A socket from a 6A lighting cct (which is wired in 1.5mm2, to run a few LED's) to supply a lawn mower and similar items? Somebody was given a quote to install the socket.


F
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    Divided opinion yes.

    ​​​​​​One thing I would not do is increase  the rating  of the OPD of the existing circuit. When venturing out of the bounds of  the original circuit design you really need to be able to back up your decision, to say, increase the OPD rating. It involves more risk for you. There is the issue of " are you making things less safe " than the existing configuration?    If you intend to do it anyway, leave the 6 amp as it is.
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    Farmboy:


    Well apart from having asked about upping the cb size, i was simply asking whether you would put a socket on the end of a lighting cct, to which you're apparently saying yes. So there appears to be divided opinion.

     



    559.5.1(v) specifically states that socket outlets are permitted on lighting installations, so that is that answered.


    Obviously wanting it for plugging in something which will trip the MCB every time is not going to be much use.


    Therefore, is it possible to do anything to prevent this?


    The circuit has 20A cable so If you know the circuit is not subject to more than 25% derating then you can have a 16A  MCB which is adequate for a 13A socket and the lights.

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    Farmboy:

    Is it your opinion then that accounting for installation method, shock protection, thermal constraints and VD re the existing lighting cct, upping the cb to, for example, 16A (subject to the lighting manufacturers installation instructions) and putting a single 13A socket on the end is ok?




    One might argue that the circuit has become a socket circuit with some luminaires connected to it.


    My only concern (as FB has stated) would be that the luminaires are fused (for example) so that an internal fault would be handled appropriately. Put another way, if the luminaires' installation instruction specified a 6A MCB, it would not be possible to substitute a higher value.

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    geoffsd:




    Farmboy:


    Well apart from having asked about upping the cb size, i was simply asking whether you would put a socket on the end of a lighting cct, to which you're apparently saying yes. So there appears to be divided opinion.

     



    559.5.1(v) specifically states that socket outlets are permitted on lighting installations, so that is that answered.


    Obviously wanting it for plugging in something which will trip the MCB every time is not going to be much use.


    Therefore, is it possible to do anything to prevent this?


    The circuit has 20A cable so If you know the circuit is not subject to more than 25% derating then you can have a 16A  MCB which is adequate for a 13A socket and the lights.

     

     




    But 559.5.1v is presumably referring to using 13A skts to connect luminaries to lighting ccts, not necessarily using 13A skts to connect other items of equipment to lighting ccts, such as lawn mowers (which was what i was trying to ask about).


    F

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    It doesn't say that. 


    Even if that were what was meant, what is to stop someone plugging in a lawn mower?

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    If the MCB can be safely uprated to 16 amps, then adding a single 13 amp socket is a bit more acceptable. Still not IMHO good practice, but acceptable. A defective appliance might well trip the MCB and thereby deprive the stairway of lighting.

    Would I add a socket outlet to a lighting circuit in my own home or that of a friend ? probably yes, reluctantly.

    Would I add a socket outlet to an exit route lighting circuit for a block of flats ? probably not.


    If this socket outlet is accessible to the occupants of the flats, then I foresee very considerable opportunity for use/misuse. Power tools including arc welders for car repairs. Slow charging of an EV, Anything dodgy that trips the circuit. All this increases the chances of tripping the stairway lighting, perhaps for an extended time.

    A non standard socket slightly reduces these risks.
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    Farmboy:




    geoffsd:




    Farmboy:


    Well apart from having asked about upping the cb size, i was simply asking whether you would put a socket on the end of a lighting cct, to which you're apparently saying yes. So there appears to be divided opinion.

     



    559.5.1(v) specifically states that socket outlets are permitted on lighting installations, so that is that answered.


    Obviously wanting it for plugging in something which will trip the MCB every time is not going to be much use.


    Therefore, is it possible to do anything to prevent this?


    The circuit has 20A cable so If you know the circuit is not subject to more than 25% derating then you can have a 16A  MCB which is adequate for a 13A socket and the lights.

     

     




    But 559.5.1v is presumably referring to using 13A skts to connect luminaries to lighting ccts, not necessarily using 13A skts to connect other items of equipment to lighting ccts, such as lawn mowers (which was what i was trying to ask about).


    F


     




    More likely 5-amp sockets or dedicated lighting sockets, not 13-amp sockets.


    Andy Betteridge 

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    Farmboy:

    So, we all know about feeding lights from a socket cct, but would you do it the other way around, running on to a single 13A socket from a 6A lighting cct (which is wired in 1.5mm2, to run a few LED's) to supply a lawn mower and similar items? Somebody was given a quote to install the socket.


    F




     

    It sounds quite possible, but needs careful consideration.


    Andy Betteridge
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    I did have to sort out a double socket installed by “the builders” as the customer said every time she tried to boil water in the kettle the lights tripped off.


    Andy Betteridge
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    Buiders socket wired in bellwire or coax Andy?

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