Electrical outages. cyber attacks ?

I certainly have a plan B for most of the above.

Electricity==============UPS with a 12 hour run time.

Lighting===============electric lights on the UPS, with candles, oil lamps and dry battery lamps for longer outages.

Heating===============multi fuel stove with fuel for months. Also warm blankets and long underwear.

Food=================large stocks of non perishables.

Water================bottled water for drinking, and an IBC full as well.


I am however in a minority in such matters.

I have a green house heater and a couple of litres of paraffin, but that’s probably not a good idea inside the house.


Andy Betteridge

Sparkingchip:

I have a green house heater and a couple of litres of paraffin, but that’s probably not a good idea inside the house.


Andy Betteridge 

The main risk is fire of the heater is knocked over. DOMESTIC paraffin heaters are required to have a safety device that extinguishes the flame if knocked over or tilted, GREENHOUSE heaters do not have this safety feature.

Carbon monoxide is unlikely to be a problem if the heater is burning correctly, though a CO alarm is a prudent precaution just in case.

I use a long burning Tilley infra-red radiator in severe weather, these have not been made for decades but good used examples turn up on fleabay regularly. They work in the same way as a Tilley lamp. Spare parts are still available.

I've just had a look at the dynamic demand site which has a live frequency meter I noticed the frequency was bouncing up and down very quickly  going from 49.8 to 50.08 cycles the bounce seemed very rapid and was happening for several minutes before stabilising a bit. Now I've not been able to look there for ages but I seem to remember from before that it didn't  change so rapidly is this some symptom of the recent bother They've had or is it normal  x Kelly

Kelly Marie:

I've just had a look at the dynamic demand site which has a live frequency meter I noticed the frequency was bouncing up and down very quickly  going from 49.8 to 50.08 cycles the bounce seemed very rapid and was happening for several minutes before stabilising a bit. Now I've not been able to look there for ages but I seem to remember from before that it didn't  change so rapidly is this some symptom of the recent bother They've had or is it normal  x Kelly

The rapid changes in frequency that you have observed are not a symptom of the recent failure, as I first observed such rapid and frequent changes some months ago.

They do however appear to be a relatively new phenomena which I find a bit worrying.

As has been suggested by others, the decline of conventional steam turbine driven alternators is a likely cause of this. A similar capacity of wind turbines and PV modules do not possess the mechanical inertia of steam driven plant. Neither is there the stored potential energy of the steam in the boiler.

I would however suggest an additional factor that is in my view contributing to these rapid changes, which appear to be verging upon oscillations at times.

Years ago we had a lot of manufacturing industry with machinery driven by induction motors. Any sudden drop in frequency will briefly reduce the energy absorbed by such motors, they might even very briefly generate electricity as they are driven by the mechanical inertia of the machine to which they are coupled. Any sudden increase in grid frequency will increase the energy absorbed by such motors as they "try" to accelerate the driven machinery up to the new synchronous speed, less a modest amount of slip. With less manufacturing industry, we have lost the inadvertent self stabilising effect of millions of induction motors.


Edit to add, I have previously posted about these rapid fluctuations in grid frequency. Cant remember if it was in the dying days of the old forum, or the early days of the new forum. Can anyone find a link ?

I think it is unlikely there was a Cyber Attack involved. If it was the CPNI would have something to say about it, but then if they did say something it may well be only advised to people on a 'need to know' basis so the fact that we haven't heard anything is no evidence one way or the other. However I have heard that the wind farm trip was 2 1/2 minutes after the first (gas power station) trip which would be consistent with a system stability problem rather than a cyber attack.

The comments related of "they would have to leave the heater in babies room on"  and  "they should not be allowed to turn of lifts in buildings with disable people" certainly highlight the public lack of knowledge of the realities of the distribution network but I also heard that an MP has called for a 'review into our reliance on electricity'. I don't know what they expect to do - perhaps reverse the proposals to switch to Electric Vehicles?

Alasdair

Here is a suggestion for a test or investigation that a forum member might be able to carry out with suitable data logging/recording test instruments.

Find a large and continually running induction motor, taking care that the mechanical load on the motor is constant at least in the short term. The motor must be directly connected to the mains and not via any form of variable speed drive.


Measure the power absorbed at very frequent intervals, several times per second and record this. Also measure and record the grid frequency at similarly frequent intervals. I suspect that a sudden drop in frequency will result in a significant reduction in power for a short time until conditions stabilise at the lower frequency.


Basic electrical theory shows that a frequency reduction will reduce the steady state power used by say an AHU drive. Lower frequency, reduced motor speed, reduced fan speed, less air moved, therefore less power used.

My suggestion is NOT regarding these steady state conditions, but is regarding the behaviour of induction motors under rapidly varying or transient conditions.

Thanks broadgage I know that our local industrial estate has more electronic manufacturing places and retail outlets than old style machine shops. It's a shame but it seems that our loss of manufacturing sites and proper power stations may be putting a real strain on the system I just hope that the powers that be can sort it out. More sychronus condensers anyone?