Rules and Guidelines
Want to participate in the discussions? Please read our Community Rules and Guidelines. Need some help? Visit Support and Answers.

  • State Not Answered
  • Locked Locked
  • Replies 20 replies
  • Subscribers 32 subscribers
  • Views 2811 views
  • Users 0 members are here
Options
You may also be interested in
This discussion is locked.
You cannot post a reply to this discussion. If you have a question start a new discussion

Electrics in a new build house

Lisa Miles
Hi all


I've had an anonymous question for the forum which I hope you can help with. 


Can an electrician sign off another electrician's installation in a new build house after it's been covered up i.e. plastered over etc?
  • 0

    Chris Pearson:




    mapj1:

    Actually I think you should test at stages determined by the highest pain level of what you have to do if there is a problem found.




    I think that we are both saying the same thing. Clearly a ring final needs to be joined up before it can be tested properly, but the conductors can be checked for continuity and IR in any section which may be difficult to replace later. If a JB (maintenance-free, of course) is to be entombed in a truly inaccessible location, it would indeed be sensible to test in stages.


    That said, and perhaps I am missing the point somewhere, but I still don't see why I&T of a new installation merits an EICR as opposed to an EIC.


    One other thing. When inspecting another's work for initial verification, would sampling be appropriate?


    My thinking is that if you take a few sockets off the wall and the workmanship is good in all of them, you may be confident that all of them have been installed to the same standard, so sampling would be appropriate. Put another way, if you instruct a reasonably experienced apprentice to put up some sockets, would you want to inspect all of them before they are screwed to the wall, or would you trust your apprentice to do it correctly?


     




    Because an EICR won't hold the same liability for the tester as an EIC. Especially in respect of non accessible parts. As there is no EIC on record, I would say that the EICR should have 100% sampling for inspection and testing. Others may disagree though.

  • 0
    It will be an EICR, because for whatever reason the original designer/installer is not actually  available to sign on the dotted line  - there may be legitimate reason for this, or he may have been the type that  clicked his spurs, cocked his hat and rode off into the sunset once the cheque cleared.

    The best that anyone coming to the party late can do, is inspect what has already been put there by persons unknown, and report on what they find. How much they decide to dismantle will be decided by how good or bad  the first bits appear when they get looked at .

    Somewhere between

    1) 'it's neater than if I did it myself, no further opening up is needed' and

    2) 'This is  !"£$y awful and all needs to be redone from scratch '

    is the decision on what needs to happen next.

    And it is not so much if you trust your own trainee wireman or apprentice, but if you trust the other chaps,  who may be on his first day, or his 300th..
  • 0

    mapj1:

    It will be an EICR, because for whatever reason the original designer/installer is not actually  available to sign on the dotted line ...




    Thanks Mike, that makes good sense to me now. ?

  • 0
    I had this experience a few years ago with my own home “extension” (a partial rebuild). Builder number one who had done excellent work next door, promised for months to start work, then stopped taking my calls on the agreed start date. Builder number two, lost productivity and it became clear had personal money troubles in the background. We were just getting to electrics and plumbing , when his proposed Electrician was someone who I know vaguely from the local pub. Probably OK, but it was another symptom that he didn’t have the team that he promised, so when the local plumber who he had approached credit checked him, alarm bells really started ringing. I was able to cut my losses, but he came round and smashed a window in retribution.  The third builder introduced an electrician, who I was informed had part P certification. He was clearly capable and productive, but came from some distance away. What he did was good, but when it came to finishing off, there wasn’t enough payment left to tempt him back and we couldn’t contact him.  Not a major problem as I could do that myself, although my last C&G exam was 16th edition (I was trained on the 14th).


    The Building Control Officer couldn’t sign it off without a completion certificate, but was happy to agree that an Electrical Installation Condition Report would be sufficient. This was interesting and instructive, because a number of issues needed attention. These were minor and mostly relating to labelling. There was one technical issue, relating to an MCB rating where he was wrong, but it wasn’t worth squabbling, so I went along with it.  Because the new extension had its own consumer unit, the “old” part of the property wasn’t inspected.  If it had been, then it has several deficiencies that I’m happy to live with, because the risk is very small and cost of renewal high. In that context some would argue that my less than five year old consumer units should be replaced.       

  • 0

    Roy Bowdler:
    ... it has several deficiencies that I’m happy to live with, because the risk is very small and cost of renewal high.      




    I was told many years ago that the worst electrical installations were in the homes of Electrical Engineers who were aware of the risks and more willing to live with them (for instance, you should see my electrics - or perhaps I should say you shouldn't see my electrics - though in my defence I rectified a number of things that I wasn't willing to live with when we moved in).

  • 0
    What about a scenario where the job was a cu change and no cable routes are visible? Surely an EIC with 'limitations' is fine?

    And just WHAT does the LABC DO with all these bits of paper and hard drives full of 'notifications'?

    What actual use is it to them?
  • 0
    Its not quite the same as  a limitation on the inspection  - its the lower scope of works - connect new CU to extant circuits.


    Here, in the OP, who I suspect hos now run off, has some new untested circuits, and a new CU, and is the installer of neither.

    What do the local BCO do ? - produce a copy of the records on request  if your solicitor asks for it during house purchase.

    Nothing else as far as I can tell.
  • 0
    When an electrician "signs off" work he signs to say he designed it, so how can he sign off someone elses work?
  • Former Community Member
    0 Former Community Member
    This practice seems very common round my way, I can't understand why electrician's would be happy to talk themselves out of work. It seems every small builder is a jack of all trades these days and it's looking like the norm from what I've experienced to call the electrician in on the eleventh hour to sign off the work completed by the builder for no other reason other than financial. 


    I certainly would not entertain the idea unless there where exceptional circumstances. 


    Regards TS



    ​​​
  • 0
    The circumstances that I described tell of the market conditions. Round my way, like Timeserved , many Builders, Electricians, Plumbers etc can pick and choose. It’s a slight exaggeration, but like supermodels many wouldn’t get out of bed for less than £££.  It’s a seller’s rather than buyer’s market.  http://www.ladbible.com/community/uk-inspirational-self-employed-london-plumber-earns-210000-a-year-in-his-mid-30s-20180204


    My first builder, obviously had a better offer at the last minute, the second was “luckily” available at short notice to step in. The Building Control Officer had worked with him before and thought highly of him at that time, he was clearly capable, but as became apparent, his personal life and finances had become chaotic, since he had seemed a stable local family man to my trusted neighbour who gave me his name.  Like the first builder, the Electrician must have just had a better offer and decided not to come back for last few hundred pounds still on the table. There may also have been an element of  “creative tension”, since had I been a bit younger and had more time, then I would have done the job myself and in the pre-part P era signed it off as well.  Actually I liked him and he was very productive. However, having worked for many years for a Major M&E contractor (but not at the “coal face”) I learned that relationships are everything. Otherwise everybody just gives their money to Lawyers instead and some of them earn even more than self-employed plumbers    ?!  


    I got the impression that the Electrician who carried out the EICR to satisfy Building Control, specialised somewhat in inspections. There are also round my way, a number of businesses that specialise purely in vehicle MOT tests, without doing any repair work, so there is no incentive for them to “inflate the job”. So he just failed the inspection, set out his reasons and came back when the remedial work had been carried out, although there was a little bit of sensible negotiating around the edges.     

Join us to get the best from IET EngX.

Joining EngX lets you personalise your experience so you stay up to date on the topics that interest you, plus you’ll be able to make connections who are looking to collaborate, exchange ideas and more.

Join us Not now

Community Rules & Guidelines