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Power for People (to sell locally generated renewable energy to local people)

AncientMariner
I am both a County Councillor and a Community Councillor.


Recently an organisation Power for People have asked our Community Council to support the Local Electricity Bill. This would enable Parish, Town or Community Councils to set up their own energy companies to sell locally generated renewable energy to local people.  http://www.hawardencommunitycouncil.gov.uk/Hawarden-CC/UserFiles/Files/Item%209%20Local%20Electricity%20Bill.pdf


Whilst I can accept and understand that if our Community Council wished to install solar panels on our office (it is based in a small bungalow) we could sell the surplus electricity produced. However that would be into the network. It would, no doubt, be an interesting calculation to prove that this surplus electricity was actually consumed locally. The only other option would be to have our own network of distribution cables !


Or has the Director of the organisation who sent the email misunderstood how surplus electricity is sold?  Certainly a council could sell waste heat. in the form of steam or hot water produced by a waste incinerator for local housing or perhaps a sports complex (I am thinking of a swimming pool etc) but for either there would have to be arrangements if no heat or too much available.


Clive
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    Chris Pearson:

    It seems to be a proposal for local energy suppliers. I can see no advantage from the proposal.




    A return to the 1940’s before nationalisation when local councils and others generated and distributed electricity locally.


    Another example of people who should know better looking at times gone bye with those tinted glasses and claiming things will be better if we no back to how things were fifty years or more ago.


    Andy Betteridge 

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    Rose tinted glasses and go back.


    Spellcheuqer has been at it again!
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    Reality check.


    What should happen is the Western link HVDC should bring electricity from Scotland, a area of low demand but potential for generation to Connah Quay on Clive’s doorstep.


    Then the new Iceland to Scotland HVDC  interconnecter using cable built in the North East of England can feed into the system.


    So massive amounts of clean electricity can be delivered to Clive’s doorstep from Scotland and Iceland.


    The new Transatlantic cable from Iceland to Scotland however may not be built in the UK due to lack of government support, the Germans are encouraging those involved to build the new cable factory in Germany with the possibility of adding an additional order for German interconnecter cables two and a half times longer than the Iceland to Scotland cable taking the initial orders up to around two and a half thousand miles of cable.


    Meanwhile members of the UK Government are messing about with a bit of legislation that proposes local generation in towns without any provision to get the electricity the few miles from one side of the town to the other.


    A fanciful idea with no substance.


    Andy Betteridge
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    Western link HVDC
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    Ah makes sense to bring the DC in at  Hunterston, a place with a long history of power generation, HV transmission, and less well known, experimental and later commercial fish farming in the warm water from the nuclear power station...
    Fish farm at Hunterston 

    The caption is a bit misleading as it was actually being set up even in the late 1960s and up and running in the '70s.
    more on that
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    Several years ago I visited a photovoltaic enterprise with Bod followed by a reception.


    The photovoltaic enterprise is funded by private investors, it is immediately adjacent to an industrial estate whose businesses are the customers with the electricity fed straight into their installations. The businesses buy cheaper electricity and the investors receive a dividend on their investment which is higher than most other investments. However there is no distribution required, the electricity is transferred directly from the producer to the consumer.


    At the reception there was a presentation on schemes such as proposed by this bill. The schemes needs investors and presumably with the new government in place this morning he investment will have to come from private investors without any investment of public money by councils or local government being allowed.


    So a company will have to be set up with a board of directors and staff who need paying, then shares issued to raise the finance. The site then needs to be purchased and leased, generation equipment purchased or leased and installed whilst a marketing campaign secures customers, who may or may not be investors.


    That is the easy bit, the biggest hurdle is getting the electricity to the consumers, one option is to install a new private distribution network, which is not impossible as it’s only really like installing a cable TV network however that’s not something that was ever installed in my local area and is a potentially huge and vastly infrastructure project, particularly considering there is already network in place.


    So the only way the local generation bill can get off the ground is if a right of access to the distribution network at an affordable cost is written into it.


    The biggest question though is it viable, can small local generation companies produce electricity for less money than the big companies?


    Another question is, can small local generation companies actually produce electricity with less impact on the environment than the big companies? 


    Andy Betteridge
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    . . . Another question is, can small local generation companies actually produce electricity with less impact on the environment than the big companies?  




    Not really in my opinion. What happens if the local generation is a PV system, does everyone break out torches / candles after sunset? The answer will likely be no. Depending on the terms of the supply, either the customers or the small electricity supplier will need to buy from the grid when demand outstrips their capacity. Everyone will need smart metering, as I can see this having to be reconciled on a half hour basis. It would be interesting to see how it works in practice, as someone is going to need to purchase sufficient reserve in the local DNO supply to account for this. It seems another I’ll thought idea really. Sounds good in practice, but nobody has really considered the implications of what they are proposing. That would presumably come in the secondary (implementing) regulations, not the initial shiny law. 


    Regards,


    Alan. 

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    The other way around, if it is continuous generation 24/7 from small scale hydro generation or the like, how do you utilise all the output?


    Customers need storage heaters, car chargers and the like that can be switched in and out by the generation companies to use the available electricity to the best advantage and minimise the costs, so smart meters that can switch loads in and out.


    If you only have one generator it limits how flexible you can be responding to demand.


    Andy Betteridge
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    I have a small portable generator. It is rated at about 3kVA. It was originally designed to run on petrol, and still can. It was converted to run on bottled gas, but I can chose the energy source.  Every home should have an independent, quiet, dedicated generator that can run on bottled gas, or natural gas from the mains or liquid fuel. The generator would be efficient if only used when needed. It would be independent of the distributed mains. It would train users to be careful with the running costs. It could charge batteries for use at night when silence is required. A simple solution to domestic energy production.


    Z.

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