Rules and Guidelines
Want to participate in the discussions? Please read our Community Rules and Guidelines. Need some help? Visit Support and Answers.

  • State Not Answered
  • Locked Locked
  • Replies 109 replies
  • Subscribers 32 subscribers
  • Views 6379 views
  • Users 0 members are here
Options
You may also be interested in
This discussion has been locked.
You can no longer post new replies to this discussion. If you have a question you can start a new discussion

The future of residential building electrical installations

Arran Cameron
This is a spin-off from the discussion What is the best way to wire ceiling lights.


What do you think is the future of residential building electrical installations in 20 to 30 years time? Will they in modern and modernised houses be significantly different from what they are today or will they most likely be barely changed from what they are today?


Will consumer demand be a driving force for change or will electricians only make changes from the status quo in order to comply with updated wiring regs?
  • 0

    MHRestorations:


    We have recently installed a couple of induction hobs that only required a 13A socket (they came complete with a plug ended flex and state a demand of 2.9kw.

    A mentioned in a previous discussion about cooker switches how single hotplate induction hobs that plug into a 13A socket could replace freestanding cookers and inbuilt hobs.


    Kitchens will generally require separate ring mains (or individual sockets on a 16 breaker) if more than one hob is used. The 32A cooker circuit could end up being downrated to 16A or 20A for just an oven.
  • 0
    You still stuck in a box and need to start thinking outside of it, you are still just seeing the status quo being maintained in the future with a few minor tweaks.


    People in other  countries are already thinking quite differently to us here in the UK, have a look at the EDF French electricity tariffs and you will realise that they are already having yo embrace behaviour change to benefit from reduced tariffs at certain times of day.


    Andy Betteridge
  • 0

    Denis McMahon:


    My mind turns back to picture books I read in the 50s and 60s, prophesying life in the next century. Houses would no longer have chimneys and the fireplace would be replaced by the TV and entertainment centre.


    There is a new housing development going up near me. Most of the  houses are provided with - guess what - chimneys! Oh well, it is good to have something to attach your TV aerial to! 

    New housing estates in the 1950s where houses did not have fireplaces represented the first instance in centuries where the skyline was not interrupted by chimneys. By the 1970s houses without chimneys were the norm for new builds and generally houses with chimneys were those built to a customer's design rather than speculatively built. In the 1980s house design took a sharp turn from the modernist designs from the 1950s through to the 1970s with more emphasis on tradition. Chimneys returned even though they were purely decorative or just used as flues for gas fires. The building industry today still holds much resistance towards modernist designs of houses.

    I have made representations to our council that it would be preferable for all new houses to be oriented to provide plenty of south-facing roof, to make maximum usage of possible future solar panels, given that economics preclude building these in at new. So far the interest of the council has been zilch.

    Very interesting.
  • 0

    Sparkingchip:

    You still stuck in a box and need to start thinking outside of it, you are still just seeing the status quo being maintained in the future with a few minor tweaks.


    People in other  countries are already thinking quite differently to us here in the UK, have a look at the EDF French electricity tariffs and you will realise that they are already having yo embrace behaviour change to benefit from reduced tariffs at certain times of day.


    Andy Betteridge 




    In particular have a look at this tariff:

    The Tarif Bleu with the Tempo option



    The Tempo option has more or less replaced the above EJP option. It is a quite complex system, as it works with 6 different tariffs - blue, white and red, each segmented into heures pleines (HP) and heures creuses (HC) - that are applied depending on the day of the year.




    Prices for the Tarif Bleu EDF with the Tempo option - January 2019
    Power

    Annual subscription (with tax)

    Price of the kWh (with tax)

    Blue - HC

    Blue - HP

    White - HC

    White - HP

    Red - HC

    Red HP

    9 kVA

    €147.96

    €0.1104

    €0.1329

    €0.1255

    €0.5558

    €0.1323

    €0.5413

    12 kVA

    €172.92

    15 kVA

    €183.60

    18 kVA

    €200.88

    30 kVA

    €286.68

    36 kVA

    €328.56



    Now start designing an electrical installation to reap the most benefit from that!


    Andy Betteridge 

  • 0
    heures pleines (HP) and heures creuses (HC) are peak and off-peak with the lower rate being typically 22.00 in the evening until 6.00 the next morning, but with days colour coded and three different tariffs applied depending on the day, making a total of six tariffs overall.


    Simples ?


     Andy Betteridge
  • 0
    In France charging your electric car on the White HP tariff costs fives times what it would on the Blue HC.


    Tariffs such as these should create a completely different mindset and changes in behaviour.


     Andy Betteridge
  • 0
    The problem with complex tariffs is that they become too confusing and difficult for most customers to understand - and utilise to their advantage with correctly configured timers and controllers.


    The UK has had Economy 7 for decades which is mostly used in homes with storage heaters (or residents with nocturnal lifestyles) although it's possible that it, or similar tariffs, could become popular if EV become mainstream. If however solar becomes a major source of electricity generation in the UK then it's possible that cheaper tariffs will be offered during daylight hours rather than at night.
  • 0

    MHRestorations:



    . . .

    We have recently installed a couple of induction hobs that only required a 13A socket (they came complete with a plug ended flex and state a demand of 2.9kw.


    . . .

     




     

    It sounds like a good idea to have a hob that is portable and can be used in various parts of the kitchen - or house even. It shows that innovations can yield advantages beyond their original purpose. It would not be easy to have a portable gas hob and even with electric cooking, the idea that the hob and oven should be combined in one unit requiring a massive power connection persists.
  • 0

    Arran Cameron:


    . . . In the 1980s house design took a sharp turn from the modernist designs from the 1950s through to the 1970s with more emphasis on tradition. Chimneys returned even though they were purely decorative or just used as flues for gas fires. The building industry today still holds much resistance towards modernist designs of houses. . .

     


     

    Quite so. From the late 1800s to the 1930s house design evolved in an attractive manner. From the 1950s, unashamed modern designs emerged. Nowadays we see a lot of bogus copying of traditional ideas that are no longer appropriate. I particularly hate windows divided into tiny panes (apologies if anyone reading lives in such a house), which involve less daylight entering and more cleaning. 


    My previous house was 1970s built and had no chimney. I mounted TV aerials on a gable end, employing quite a high ladder. This is not something I fancy doing again 30 years on.
  • 0

    Arran Cameron:

    The problem with complex tariffs is that they become too confusing and difficult for most customers to understand - and utilise to their advantage with correctly configured timers and controllers.


    The UK has had Economy 7 for decades which is mostly used in homes with storage heaters (or residents with nocturnal lifestyles) although it's possible that it, or similar tariffs, could become popular if EV become mainstream. If however solar becomes a major source of electricity generation in the UK then it's possible that cheaper tariffs will be offered during daylight hours rather than at night.



    Economy 7 provides cheap overnight electricity when national demand is low. This is all going to change when electric cars become popular and inevitably many  are going to be charged overnight. At present the domestic peak demand is roughly between 4 pm and 8 pm. It seems more than possible that cheap  rate could revert to daylight hours, say 9 am to 4 pm, when domestic demand will be least and solar power will be at its best, on average.

     

Community Rules & Guidelines