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To report or not to report.....

jbrameld
In a theatre that I look after, we recently had some work done to demolish existing 'lean to' toilets and replace them with a new larger toilet block incorporating a new disabled WC.  The electical work was done by a subbie to the builder.  I think the original sparky disappeared for some reason, and someone else finished it of and certified it (under a NAPIT registration).  I have seen the cert, and I have seen the work.  I don't believe it should have been certified in the way ot was, given the quality of the work.  The work involved installing new lighting and fans from an existing feed cable that fed the old toilets, installing new hand driers (also from an existing feed), emergency lighting modifications and fitting a disabled WC alarm (fed from the lighting circuit).  Issues observed are:


No RCD protection to any circuits, even though cables are clipped to the brick/block behind a dot and dab wall (no capping or otherwise). The existing dist board pre-dated the RCD requirement but RCBOs for it are readily available.

Cables outside permitted zones - and 'stuck in' with expanding foam - no capping or conduit.

Conductors not correctly identified (blue, or black for switched live; black for neutral - no oversleeving or coloured tape even) 

Earth sleeving missing

Rats nest of terminal blocks stuffed into the ceiling above downlights

No fan isolators fitted

No emergency lighting test switches fitted

Cable that was feeding a redundant external emergency light joined in junction box and T&E run partially exposed externally and then under lead flashing and fed through a hole in our lovely new roof membrane (causing a leak....).

Emergency lights missing over re-located exit door

Emergency lighting terminal block just stuffed up into corner of wall/ceiling and plastered in.


Some pictures in the attached zip file for your amusement.


I appreciate the certificator didn't do the first fix work, but de did state on the certiificate '100% visual inpection'  and ticked all the boxes that should not have been ticked based on the above.


We haven't yet raised this with the contractor, however we are wondering if we should report him to NAPIT (if they would even care.....).  It doesn't seem right that a supposedly competent scheme member should certificate work in this condition.


We have held money back from the main contractor for this (and numerous other items that they have been unable to rectify).  I can fix it all myself, and I'm not sure I would trust the sparky to fix it all properly anyway..... 


What would you do?


Jason.

ph-pics.zip
  • 0
    Given your mentions of legal recourse, I presume you mean 'Competent Persons Scheme' rather than 'Crown Prosecution Service'!


    The crown service of course having no interest in Civil cases.


    I don't plan to take them to court.
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    Sparkingchip:

    You can’t polish a t*rd.


    I just needs ripping out and replacing, which presumably means opening up the fabric of the building and the making good afterwards.


    So it will cost more to replace it than the cost of installing it in the first place. But without a specification how can you say there should been specific items like an emergency light over a door or a RCBO?


    I suspect that the theatre will end up paying for the replacement work without ever recovering the full cost, unless there has already been sufficient retention of payments to the builder to cover it.


    Andy Betteridge 




    We have a reasonable sum held from the main contractor, but likely not enough to cover the cost of all of the work that needs doing (in addition to the electrical work).  With some smart thinking we can fix most of the issues without ripping all of it out, but yes there will definitely be some making good to do.  I expect I will end up fixing it myself, but we may ask the certifying contractor to come and sort it out.  If they refuse, it will end up being me - peed off with teh contractor for 'getting away' with a badger's backside job in the first place.


     

  • 0
    I’m not sure a CPS will rectify commercial work, I think the insurance backed warranty is offered by NAPIT for all domestic work notifiable work notified or  non-notifiable work which is logged through their system with the fee including the insurance premium being paid.


    But I think that the Certsure schemes sell it as an optional extra for domestic work, so although domestic work may have been notified through their scheme the insurance backed warranty was not automatically included.


    I don’t think any of the Certsure schemes or NAPIT will send anyone around to rectify this work, the contractor may get a slap on the wrist or be expelled, but that’s it.


    Andy Betteridge
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    You seem a bit relient on capping. It serves no  purpose other than protecting cables from plasterers float or from light bangs prior finished coat or plasterboarding etc. After that it is useless and redundant on the finished job  i.e. it will not offer protection against nails, screws and drills.etc. 

    i a  wondering what lead to this sequence of events. I would have a word with the contractors in the first instance ref your concerns of the standards of job presented to you, see what remedy they offer then take it from there. If you then get a solution that all parties are happy with then that is the best outcome. Hold in reserve the complain to napit for the time being and leave it in your last reserve amoury for the time being along with civil proceedings if you feel you have a case
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    jbrameld:

    Given your mentions of legal recourse, I presume you mean 'Competent Persons Scheme' rather than 'Crown Prosecution Service'!


    The crown service of course having no interest in Civil cases.


    I don't plan to take them to court.




    Yes, I didn't think for one moment that you intended to report the workers to a magistrate.


    Afraid that I think that you (or the theatre) are on a hiding to nothing. Contracts have express terms and implied terms - the latter refers, for example, to goods being fit for purpose. So if the contract says, "supply and fit fan to toilet block", what may be implied? There may be case law which sets this out, but IMHO, fit for purpose means that the fan should be effective in changing the air to a reasonable standard, and that it should be possible to operate it reasonably safely. I am not at all sure that compliance with BS7671 is necessary unless it was specified in the contract.


    By all means, withhold payment until you are satisfied that the contract has been completed, but very sadly and despite all the consumer law which we have, I am not optimistic that you will have a satisfactory outcome.

  • 0
    Consumer law and protections do not come into it, its a business to business transaction.


     Andy Betteridge
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    I am not at all sure that compliance with BS7671 is necessary unless it was specified in the contract.



    But if the contractor has issued a certificate stating that the work complies with BS 7671 - when clearly it doesn't - isn't the issue of such a certificate simply fraudulant?


      - Andy.

  • 0
    PIcking up on a couple of things:


    I'm not hung up on capping, but I'm not a fan of direct burial in plaster/dot and dab either.  The unsheathed cables should not have been used outside of any form of protection though.


    Consumer law may not come in to it, but Building Regulations do - and they are a legal requirement.  There is also the legal principle of the sub-contrator carrying out the work with reasonable skill and care expected of a competent tradesperson - contract or no contract.


    I am less concerned about getiing them to fix it (although we will ask them to) - more annoyed at the prospect of them getting away with the shoddy work and signing it off scott-free.  Lots of it about maybe, but still doesn't make it right!


    Jason.

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