Electric boilers - effect on power demand of a block of flats

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Try that that and you should be able to see a couple of the external gas rising mains that I have told been will have to be replaced or have been replaced by now.


Only about thirty years old and beyond use.

More than what? Surely a modern all-singing, all-dancing condensing boiler should use less than a good old-fashioned floor-standing made-to-last brute?


More than an old boiler rated to heat radiators and the coil in a hot-water-cylinder as the new ones are combi-nations designed to heat radiators or provide instant hot water from cold at a flow rate to satisfy the I-must-have-it-now generation who can't wait.................


Typical figures being 15 kW as opposed to 24-27-even bigger kW now desired.


Regards


B-O-D

I'm not convinced.

Yes, the peak demand may now be higher but only for a short time. Meanwhile all the others in the block are probably using less as a result of the better efficiency.

The first thing that happens when a new combi boiler is installed to replace a old system boiler is  the pipework is upgraded.


It's a bit of a sod really, neither the existing electric or gas installation may be suitable for supplying the first choice of a replacement water and space heating system, there may have to be compromises  and a heating system chosen to suit the existing gas and/or electric supplies that are available.


Andy B.

The problem is the need  to be able to run a bath of hot water without storage allowing a slow heat up over time- the heat exchanger in a combi is very small, so the water has to be flash heated. In a cylinder type system, as with the ol' immersion, you can have a longer slower burn.

In smaller buildings at least, the radiators are the smaller fraction of the load.


As regards the internal corrosion, interesting link about the microbes. maybe as well as a smell we should be adding some sort of corrosion inhibitor.

An economy seven 60-amp supply gives 14.4 kilowatts per hour for seven hours, so a heat charge into storage of 100 kW hours at a time when generally other demand is absolutely minimal.


So if used evenly over 24 hours that is 4.2 kW  per hour, the tricky part is retaining the heat for when you want it, but perfect for those who at home most of the time.


Andy B.

The thing about baths is that they use far more water than having a shower, so it wont be long until new houses

without gas or Air/Ground source pumps will only have a shower, no bath.

It makes total sense from an energy viewpoint, as well as environmental, with less water used.

I rather doubt that properties without baths would sell very well at all.Imagine trying to bath a small child in the shower, it would be impossible and probably very noisy and wet for the parent as well.


The idea expressed above of a 4.5 kW continuous load doesn't fly does it? Present supply infrastructure is only about 1kW per property, and this is far too low for electric heating on any scale. Therefore the suggestion is that entire cities have to have much larger supplies installed. Simply not possible due to both cost and huge levels of civil works needed. Then you have not defined where the electricity comes from in the first place, perhaps you are going to suggest gas turbines? Replacing heating of 90% efficiency with a CCGT with 50% efficiency, less distribution losses, is clearly foolish. Countrywide the supply would need to be about 150 GW, more than three times the current generation capacity! The energy we get from domestic gas is much larger than is obvious, say 40 million, 10 or more kW boilers, that is 400GW.


It is quite clear that a little simple arithmetic and engineering fact finding are well beyond anyone suggesting these ideas. Why do they not consider practicalities over politics? Presently the media thinks electricity is free and available in unlimited quantities. Of course the opposite is true, it is getting more expensive by the day and supplies are dangerously short. The answer must be that lying to the public has some other motive, and a little study will rapidly find that answer too. The end of the world may be closer than you think, but not because of "climate change".

It may be that a Des. Res has a bath in the bathroom,  But round here (Hants) there are plenty of young couples in 2 bed flats and converted parts of Victorian 3 story houses that only have a shower, and the same is true of some folk living in caravan parks in static homes, though these usually have propane heating and a 32A supply, some of the larger models may well have a bath. Such bath free properties do sell, and fast, but those customers with more money will obviously go for better.


In such a property the solution when baby comes along is one of these Combination changing table and bath unit on a trolley. the padded changing area lifts off and underneath is the bath.

Anything like toddler age can indeed go in the grown up shower, and play the 'look it's like rain only warm' game. No worse than using the showers at the swimming baths. For occasional visitors etc, it is quite possible to wash a small child in a kitchen sink.


Actually a large no. of the older properties probably predate all of this indoor bathroom idea- I was staring again into the void of the flat in Farnborough this weekend,  and identifying the pipe stubs from the gas lights, which were probably not an original fit either but a modernising convenience over an oil lamp or something. Buildings of that age would not have had hot water at all, and maybe even cold water was pumped outside, certainly all the the WC piping is very much an addition. I suspect that that folk who lived there first would have found a shower an unimaginable  luxury, and in the grand scheme of things it is not that long ago, also It is certainly not the oldest building in the street by far that is very much in use. ( ~ 150 years is after all only a couple of lifetimes - as a child I remember a scary Aunt who was very much a Victorian who was very dismissive of dependence on modern fancies like the electric kettle- her parents would have been from the generation that built that..)

My point is in some ways the same, and that is to say that progress being "forwards" in terms of increasing amounts of stuff, and increasing energy available is not really guaranteed, and luckily perhaps, not essential. I still maintain that we had it best with near free oil and gas, about 20- 30 years ago, and now it needs to be paid for.


A 13A socket does the labour of perhaps a team of ten or more very fit slaves - there are not many jobs where we can work at hundreds of watts for very long.