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EV CHARGING EQUIPMENT

John Peckham
I am hearing from my network of contractors, that have actually read the new 722, that they have been asking charging equipment manufactures for documentary proof to comply with Note 5 of 722.411.4.


They are getting knocked back for asking or in one case a Declaration that says the particular device complies with BS 7671. I think that is wrong to declare that as BS 7671 is an installation safety standard and not a product standard. I believe that as a minimum the equipment must comply with the Low Voltage Directive and be CE marked. I also believe that manufacturers have to issue a Declaration of Conformity. 


BS 7671 722 has numerous references to the various standards required such as BS EN 61851 that the equipment must comply with. I am thinking it may be illegal to offer the sale of equipment that does not comply with the Low Voltage Directive and is not CE marked?


I am hoping the countries top man of equipment safety standards, Paul Skyrme , sees this post and will come on and give us his expert view?


Has any forum member asked for a Declaration of Conformity from EV charging equipment manufacturers and received one?
  • 0


    Not that the majority of people who actually use 13-amp sockets for charging EVs are likely to understand the risks of using an unmarked socket anyway.

     


     

    I think it's safest to assume that the owner of an EV with a "granny lead" will plug it into the first 13A socket that comes to hand, whatever it may say on the back of the socket.


    But the lead isn't just an extension lead with a funny plug on the end.  The box of electronics in it will include some form of safety monitoring, including an RCD function.
  • 0

    Paul Skyrme:

    It has to be opened up to be wired when fitted Andy! ;)


    As far as inspection goes, for something that is likely running at 13A for maybe 10 or 12 hours at a time, possibly more, on a regular basis wouldn't you want to pop the front off and take a peek?


    I agree it would be better on the exterior of the outlet, but then again that is why things like BS 1363 & BS 7671 go through a DPC stage, for those of us who have to work with them to make comments on getting them created in a manner which makes our lives easier.



    It shouldn't be more than 10A for a "granny lead".

     

  • 0
    Regards taking a peek inside any socket back box you, particularly an outdoor socket of any kind you work through the mental check list:
    • Does it look like a tidy installation.

    • How long has it been installed.

    • Is the enclosure intact, including the lid or has the IP ratings been compromised.

    • Does the socket have signs of thermal damage or is it cracked,

    • Testing without disassembly, R1+R2 or R2, insulation, polarity, single pole protective devices in the live phase, earth loop impedance and RCD times.

    • Whatever I have forgotten to write down, but would just check by habit on the day.


    We should know a lot about the socket before we decide to start digging out the sealing caps over the screws holding the enclosure together to take a peek inside the back box and we should know about any specific issues we are looking for, there may be a surprise awaiting the inspector inside the back box, but most times you know there’s an issue before you open it up.


    Assuming this EV charging socket is on its own circuit what are we looking at time wise to check the socket and circuit, twenty five minutes? So there probably is time to take it apart as you are supposed to take some fittings apart during the inspection.


     Andy Betteridge
  • 0
    A shaver socket gets an infographic and a label  which spoils it sleek design when it is going to be installed in a swish bathroom, but the it seems 13-amp EV sockets need to remain unblemished even though they are intended to be installed on a wall outside or within a garage and in the majority of installations are going to be covered with a lid to get the required IP rating; and labelling on the front of a USB charger built into a 13-amp plug socket is obligatory.


    Mind you you may still need to partially dismantle the installation to check the the BS number on the back of the shaver socket if it’s a make you are unfamiliar with.


    Being familiar with products is probably the key to the issue, most electricians once familiar with a particular brand of product that is easy to install and does not cause them or their customers issues will stick with that brand indefinitely and specify whenever possible.


    Going right back to the original post, once JP finds a manufacturer whose products he feels he can confidently specify I bet it will need quite a bit of persuasion to get him to swap to another brand, so you think that the manufacturers would all be working hard to get him onboard.


    Andy Betteridge 


  • Former Community Member
    0 Former Community Member
    It has to be opened up to be wired when fitted Andy! ;)


    As far as inspection goes, for something that is likely running at 13A for maybe 10 or 12 hours at a time, possibly more, on a regular basis wouldn't you want to pop the front off and take a peek?


    I agree it would be better on the exterior of the outlet, but then again that is why things like BS 1363 & BS 7671 go through a DPC stage, for those of us who have to work with them to make comments on getting them created in a manner which makes our lives easier.
  • 0

    Paul Skyrme:

    Option 1.

    It can, IF it is marked EV on the rear, and this information is confirmed in the instructions for the unit.


    Option 2.

    See option 1.




     

    So something as simple as an outdoor plug socket needs to be dismantled for identification purposes, rather than just plugging a tester into it.


    Okay, we need to take some things apart anyway for inspection, but stripping down a 13-amp outdoor plug socket to try and find the name of the manufacturer and if it is marked EV seems a bit over the top, but actually we could be going further and contacting the manufacturer for documentation.


    Surely these sockets could all be marked with the standards they are manufactured to on their face along with the information that they are intended for EV charging, after all they are a specialised item.


    Not that the majority of people who actually use 13-amp sockets for charging EVs are likely to understand the risks of using an unmarked socket anyway.


    Andy Betteridge
  • Former Community Member
    0 Former Community Member

    OlympusMons:

    I was recently asked to install an external 3-pin socket for a Misubishi PHEV car. The lead that comes with the car, made by Yazaki, is CE marked and has "residual current limit I(delta)n 20mA" on the data plate. I asked Yazaki for details of the device and they replied they were under contract with Mitsubishi not to divulge details of the lead. I asked Mitsubishi UK for details of it and they confirmed there was an RCD in it but did not know any more details, such as type. In the maufacture's handbook for the car (if I downloaded the right one) there is no DOC for the lead, there are some for radio, tyres etc 

    The property presents as TNS, but as it is in London, and UKPN cannot confirm that the supply cable is not PME (as the majority in London are), it must be treated as PME. The curtilage is not huge around the property and where the car will be parked there is an electric gate within 2 metres.

    This would be my first EV charging point and I am a bit stuck as to what to suggest.

    It would be good to have a lead that complies with the new 722

     




    Mitsubishi must specify the RCD type required, if they do not, then one has to take worst case scenario and install a B type, you can't even rely on an A type being suitable without data from the vehicle OEM.

    Another case of a manufacturer not complying with their responsibilities.

    I have lost count of the number of automotive clients I have spoken to that do not know the IEC definition of High Voltage!

    They seem to believe that 48 or so volts & above is high voltage!

    The automotive industry have created this problem to keep the initial costs of the vehicle to the minimum and pass on the associated costs to the buyer.

    With the buying power of that industry, they could easily have designed the vehicles such that the cost increase would have been minimal and the increase in vehicle mass the same, and this would have done away with all of the installation issues we are seeing, but no, profit for them first and foremost.

     

  • Former Community Member
    0 Former Community Member

    John Peckham:

    Andy


    Down to the contractor I think as they should have provided an EIC that one or more individuals has designed the installation to BS 7671, installed the installation to BS 7671 and has been inspected and tested the installation for compliance with BS 7671 and those person(s) have certified compliance with their signatures.



    I would only FI an apparent non-compliance if I was unsure if the EV charging equipment was not compliant after I had made inquiries with the equipment manufacturer. Using an FI without making reasonable inquires because the inspector cannot make an effort is not exercising due diligence in my book.

     




    What are reasonable enquiries though John?

    Do you spend a day or two chasing through emails and documents, unpaid, or drop off an email, see if you get a timely reply, and if not issue the report with FI.

    I know which I would do, and it wouldn't be spending days unpaid chasing information.

  • Former Community Member
    0 Former Community Member
    Option 1.

    It can, IF it is marked EV on the rear, and this information is confirmed in the instructions for the unit.


    Option 2.

    See option 1.
  • 0
    Option 1

    Option 2


    No matter how neatly option 1 is installed with its own TT earthing system and double pole Type B RCD it cannot comply with the regulations can it?


    Option 2 can be installed to comply with the regulations, how much supporting documentation should be provided with it?


    Andy Betteridge

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