Self employed Electrician set up query

Sparkingchip:

What type of electrical work have you been doing for the last ten years as an employee and what type of work do you envisage doing in the future as a contractor?


Andy B.

Hi Andy - So i began working with an install company. Mostly doing commercial and occasionally some industrial but no maintenance. Then i had a stint of domestic rewiring for the council, mostly small 3 beds teams of 2/3 in and out within a few days. Then I started maintenance work which i have been sitting (too) comfortably in for the last 6 years at least. All above working Low Voltage systems only.


I am basically going to work whatever i can get my hands on lol Probably domestic and hopefully some commercial too. I have to admit it will be a little shock to the system being back on my hand and knees and i am feeling a little nervous but nothing i cant handle im sure and feel its time for a change

lyledunn:

Mr_deep_:

lyledunn:

Just to add to AJs reply, whatever route you take I would think it prudent to hold on to and maintain your ECS card. It provides an added degree of flexibility should you have need to sub in a site where workforce competency measures are in operation. Personally I would avoid the domestic stuff but in the early days of self-employment the doors that open may not offer much in the way of choice. Regardless of direction just be the best you can be. Our industry needs good guys.

The very best of luck to you. 

Thank you Lyle this is very relevant. As you mentioned, for flexibility i thought best to get my ECS card sorted as people have asked me about it in the past and if work is slow I thought i can do some agency work to tied me over. However Im kicking myself now as when i got qualified initially it was off my own back and the college never recomended i complete my NVQ level 3 and now its come back to bite me in the ass! I have to now Pay £2000 to complete my NVQ level 3 and to get assessed as a mature candidate which can take up to 12 months! 

I do feel it will be money well spent so i will be going ahead with it. Its a shame though at this point in my career as feel im back tracking but hopefully it will be worth it down the line.

As I understand it a new qualification has been developed by City and Guilds for the experienced worker which is recognised by the JIB. It was due out now but C19 has delayed it to September. Maybe worth checking. 

Oh wow! I will definately be looking into this - I can hold on until September. I will give City and Guilds a call tomorrow as well as the JIB. Thank you

AJJewsbury:

is whether building control will be happy with my test results or will they have to send someone else to verify? - is this all included in the application cost or is it a case of speaking to my local council to get verification as im getting the impression different areas run things differently.

The normal LA building control fees should include whatever inspection & testing the BCO deems necessary - I've heard that some will reduce their fees if you can provide BS 7671 certification - but that's entirely at their prerogative and as far as I know each makes up their own mind as to the acceptable criteria  - so, yes, you'd have to talk to them (or e-mail etc.). (or several of them, if you intended work area covers more than one council area).


 

is the other option just to pay a registered electrician to test and sign off with building control themselves?

Originally that was strictly forbidden - self certification could only apply to the registered electrician's own work - on the basis that ensuring compliance with BS 7671 can't be done by inspection & testing alone. Recently the powers that be have relented a little and introduced what's called a 'third party verifier' option - where the registered parts is meant to oversee the work to an extent to ensure compliance (e.g. at the very least checking things like concealed cable runs before they're covered over) and can then notify/certify for building regs on the real installer's behalf. The gotcha was that the verifier needed an additional 'badge' from their scheme operator to offer that service (which usually meant an increased membership fee) - so (as least as far as I've heard) wasn't taken up by many electricians - so while it's a valid option in theory, being able actually find someone who can do it is far less certain.


   - Andy


Thanks Andy - I will have to discuss this with the local authority i guess to fully understand the procedure because as it stands, i dont understand how the LABC will be able to check after the job is complete. Surely they will need to visit at particular stages of the install to be worth checking it at all?

is whether building control will be happy with my test results or will they have to send someone else to verify? - is this all included in the application cost or is it a case of speaking to my local council to get verification as im getting the impression different areas run things differently.

is the other option just to pay a registered electrician to test and sign off with building control themselves?

Mr_deep_:

lyledunn:

Just to add to AJs reply, whatever route you take I would think it prudent to hold on to and maintain your ECS card. It provides an added degree of flexibility should you have need to sub in a site where workforce competency measures are in operation. Personally I would avoid the domestic stuff but in the early days of self-employment the doors that open may not offer much in the way of choice. Regardless of direction just be the best you can be. Our industry needs good guys.

The very best of luck to you. 

Thank you Lyle this is very relevant. As you mentioned, for flexibility i thought best to get my ECS card sorted as people have asked me about it in the past and if work is slow I thought i can do some agency work to tied me over. However Im kicking myself now as when i got qualified initially it was off my own back and the college never recomended i complete my NVQ level 3 and now its come back to bite me in the ass! I have to now Pay £2000 to complete my NVQ level 3 and to get assessed as a mature candidate which can take up to 12 months! 

I do feel it will be money well spent so i will be going ahead with it. Its a shame though at this point in my career as feel im back tracking but hopefully it will be worth it down the line.

As I understand it a new qualification has been developed by City and Guilds for the experienced worker which is recognised by the JIB. It was due out now but C19 has delayed it to September. Maybe worth checking. 

Mr_deep_:

tattyinengland:

When I set up on my own - the NICEIC would not even consider me for approved contractor status or for enrolment for 2 years.........Any work I had carried out when employed were not to be considered even if I could prove I'd done the job entirely on my own. Some stuff I was very proud of too and still am, 15 years later. They'll still be there -some of them - as the best ones were Thames Water pump stations. Remote ones. 


In that two years as a limited company with insurance, I had to find a range of commercial and domestic works that did not require me to be a part of a governing body, do everything correctly with certificates and presented those jobs for consideration to join as an approved contractor. I'm sure there are plenty of jobs that don't need any governing body to be involved. 

Thanks for sharing mate. Im not sure what the differences are but could you have joined as a domestic installer instead? I have heard they only want to see a couple of jobs but i guess i will know where i stand when i get to speak to them. All their lines are closed due to COVID at the moment as far as i am aware.

I kept my ECS gold card up, taking the H&S tests and the regs regularly, never needed it and finally let it lapse last year as the JIB were not offering the 18th exam, sods law I will probably need it now but at 64 its unlikely

tattyinengland:

When I set up on my own - the NICEIC would not even consider me for approved contractor status or for enrolment for 2 years.........Any work I had carried out when employed were not to be considered even if I could prove I'd done the job entirely on my own. Some stuff I was very proud of too and still am, 15 years later. They'll still be there -some of them - as the best ones were Thames Water pump stations. Remote ones. 


In that two years as a limited company with insurance, I had to find a range of commercial and domestic works that did not require me to be a part of a governing body, do everything correctly with certificates and presented those jobs for consideration to join as an approved contractor. I'm sure there are plenty of jobs that don't need any governing body to be involved. 

Thanks for sharing mate. Im not sure what the differences are but could you have joined as a domestic installer instead? I have heard they only want to see a couple of jobs but i guess i will know where i stand when i get to speak to them. All their lines are closed due to COVID at the moment as far as i am aware.

lyledunn:

Just to add to AJs reply, whatever route you take I would think it prudent to hold on to and maintain your ECS card. It provides an added degree of flexibility should you have need to sub in a site where workforce competency measures are in operation. Personally I would avoid the domestic stuff but in the early days of self-employment the doors that open may not offer much in the way of choice. Regardless of direction just be the best you can be. Our industry needs good guys.

The very best of luck to you. 

Thank you Lyle this is very relevant. As you mentioned, for flexibility i thought best to get my ECS card sorted as people have asked me about it in the past and if work is slow I thought i can do some agency work to tied me over. However Im kicking myself now as when i got qualified initially it was off my own back and the college never recomended i complete my NVQ level 3 and now its come back to bite me in the ass! I have to now Pay £2000 to complete my NVQ level 3 and to get assessed as a mature candidate which can take up to 12 months! 

I do feel it will be money well spent so i will be going ahead with it. Its a shame though at this point in my career as feel im back tracking but hopefully it will be worth it down the line.

AJJewsbury:

Legally, you don't need anything to go out and work as an electrician - it's not a protected title, unlike say an architect.


Sensibly you should be able to show that you're able to work to the wiring regs and have some insurance - but that's really to protect yourself or to meet customer's requirements rather than any legal obligation. Some customers like the reassurance of some big well known organisation being there to vouch for you - but others are less bothered.


When it comes to building regulations - some work is notifiable (under part P) - which of itself doesn't make a legal difference (anyone can still carry out any electrical work) but economically it makes a lot more sense to be a member of a Competent Persons Scheme and be able to self-notify (and self-certify) for building regs (it's usually a couple quid per job via the scheme) rather than having to notify via the local council (or perhaps a 3rd party building inspector) where the cost is likely to start at over £200 per job even for the smallest job.


Note that part P of the building regs (and all the notification that goes with it) only applies to domestic installations - not to commercial or industrial ones. Some of the Schemes operate differing types of membership as a result - some (predating the building regs) concentrate on a wide range of electrical work and have just tagged on the ability to self-certify for domestics as an extra, other are solely domestic memberships and don't cover you for say commercial or industrial installations.  Likewise support for performing periodic inspections and issuing EICRs may or may not be included, You pays your money and you takes your choice.


You correctly identify a snag in that it's tricky to do some notifiable work in order to show it to a scheme before you can become a member. In theory you could get around this by notifying (in advance) through your local building control dept and paying their fee (£200+++). Most recognise that that's a bit unreasonable and as scheme members have the privilege of notifying after the event (by several tens of days) the accepted practice is to go ahead and do the work and then notify retrospectively once you've been accepted as a member. Even if you fail the assessment the first time you should still have time to notify once you have passed (just try not to fail repeatedly...)


   - Andy.

Hi Andy - This is fantastic thank you for taking the time to respond, much appreciated. a couple of things im still a little unclear on, is whether building control will be happy with my test results or will they have to send someone else to verify? - is this all included in the application cost or is it a case of speaking to my local council to get verification as im getting the impression different areas run things differently.  


Also in your opinion - Instead of notifying the building control, is the other option just to pay a registered electrician to test and sign off with building control themselves?