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Self employed Electrician set up query

Former Community Member over 4 years ago

Hi guys

I have been a qualified electrician for over 10 years working for others and now im trying to transision into to starting my own electrical installation / maintenance company. I'm a little confused as to what is required before I can legally work in other peoples properties.

I thought I needed

1. Registration with governing body

2. Liabilty insurance

I have been looking at becoming a member with the NiCEIC but the confusing part is they want to see my work to assess.

I dont understand How to do this if I need to be a member before I can work in other peoples property?

I imagine it's really simple but not sure the best route to take

Thanks in advance for any advice / guidance

0 tattyinengland over 4 years ago

Mr Deep

I did the C&G course in 2014 but did not do the project so never did get that certificate. I re-did the course recently in 2019 - AND the project - but because of corona have not bothered to do the black card bit. In general though the black card will probably be unnecessary for my work and only for my own ego; I have been an NICEIC AC for 11 years with my own company and generally that is enough for any of the commercial contracts that I am chasing. (I am a one man band really having had a couple of apprentices that I have taken through to qualified & I use a couple of self employed sparks to help out on a project by project basis when necessary).

The only time I've really really needed the JIB part (ECS Card) was on the really big construction sites when this comes into its own. No card no job.

I was doing installation work for a BMS controls company and did not have a JIB card, so lost out on a £55 000 contract to install part of the BMS System. (At the London College of Arts behind Kings Cross, London, Base build) - 6 weeks later I was back on the job commissioning the installed works when there was pressure to complete and I spent the next 6 weeks there. UNBELIEVABLE....... All it took was the threat that they were not going to complete unless they allowed this NICEIC AC and his team on site, someone signed off, and we were working on day rates. Pity about the contractural work though - that was done by others.

We all had Green CSCS Cards.

Very definitely consider doing the green CSCS card - it's for site labourers but it gets you on sites and shows a modicum of health and safety knowledge.

I have been able to, on occasion, combine my NICEIC AC bit with the green card and get on sites to do work. The NICEIC bit proves competence enough to those issuing the work and the CSCS bit proves some level of health and safety knowledge.
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0 Former Community Member over 4 years ago

That's annoying - The rule book goes out the window when the pressure is and money is at risk as does health + safety iv noticed with some establishments!

Thanks for the instght mate. I do feel I wont need the cards but at the same time would be a good safety net and flexibility for me.

Plan is to get up and running for now - as advised by previous posts and then explore my options.

Just need to settle on company name which is not easy for indecisive me lol
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0 tattyinengland over 4 years ago

Back in 2010 I wrote a company manifesto - an aim - a goal - an eventual destination - so that i could determine where i was back then and where I wanted to head to.

I'd been "in business" for 3 years and an NICEIC AC for 1 year: It is still a manifesto that I refer to all the time to ensure my company is still on course.

In addition to what I wrote then, I'd add - it is very important to use quickbooks or a similar accounts package like XERO right from the word go - your life will be so much easier than trying to use excell or similar.

This was in reply to a guy who posted on this (old) forum about his own troubles at the time.

From 2010:

It seems to me you need a slight change of direction.

I have had a real sit down and think on this same subject in about August last year and here are some of my thoughts; I hope I do not do myself out of work based on them; Please bear with me - these are only my thoughts that have taken years to begin to bear fruit, but they may help you.. (I am not a hugely successful business either but I'm as busy as hell at the moment so here we go:

I'm fairly sure that any one of the self employed/small companies around feel your pain keenly. Last year I was in the same boat, and decided that the domestic scene in all it's shapes and forms with the one exception of really smart houses, which come along very infrequently indeed, was a market that had to be avoided if possible.

There are too many people in this sector; competition driving down prices everywhere. Any big construction sparks, from when construction was booming, probably found when the work ran out - as I did - that a small one man band just does not get a look at commercial work, regardless of your experience in this sector. Hence the first stop - the domestic shark tank, which was, and still remains, the only niche really for a one man band operating on a self employed basis. (unless you can find big companies to sub to)

The domestic market has too many short cut sparks in it - further driving up competition. Every single spark can do domestic work to various degrees of competency.

So decide where you want to fit in -

1) Domestic - well no, I don't want to fit in here, but will pick up the work if it is profitable.

2) Commercial - yes, I'd like to fit in somewhere here. By fit in, I mean as the primary principal contractor supplying directly to the client - not as a subby to a large company.

3) Industrial - I'd love to fit in here especially in automation and control pannels as I've done loads of this sort of work - but have little or no "in" to this sector, but will keep the business aims and focus open to this sort of work. Invite it - if you will.

So I have decide what sector (s) I'd like to cater to, how to get it?

So back to exploring the sector that is commercial - what and where can I fit?

As a small business I am never ever going to get in if I look and feel like a one man band/maintenance/odd job man; Big electrical installation and maintenance companies use people like this all the time - people who want to arrive for work at 0800 and leave at 1700- there's nothing wrong with this at all; but it's not a business. Subbing to big companies is the same result - when the big company runs out of work, you have no customer base, no work and are in dire sh1t. You'd be better off employed with benefits. This is not a business either.

Step 1: Look and feel attractive to your customer base -

How to do this: In my own case -

1) form a ltd company

I did this a few years ago heading towards being a proper business in the future with the view that in a few years time that I could say I'd been operating for many years - other companies like this and are reassured by it.

2) In order to look and feel like a company, to other companies, I need to be a part of a recognisable governing body; this is reassuring to the commercial customer (NICEIC AC)

3) All my paper work takes priority numero uno. It is formatted correctly, is uniform, looks professional and has all the required details on it that any business anywhere will need - this is all open public information anyway, just summed up on headers/ footers/ signatures. Other companies are reassured by this.

Step 2: Identify your own strengths: Try to find areas where I differentiate from most other sparks. Find those market sectors that are under catered to or the majority of electricians are afraid of - if you're afraid of it or don't know anything about it, it is likely other sparks are in the same boat; find out - and do it.

Step 3: Market your selves as an indeterminate sized company, avoid reference to small or large. Advertise on the best place to be seen by your customer base - in my case I've tried loads of of cheap stuff; best value for money in my experience - Yell.com

Step 4: Always continue to aim for your eventual goal. Never play or work to the lowest common denominator - you'll find you are the lowest common denominator soon enough if you do. Always find challenges - this come in all forms - sometimes that comes in running a business; especially cash flow. My, and many small businesses biggest killer.

Step 5: Stay determined, this down period is just for now, the business is forever - at least until I retire in 30 odd years. Think long term thoughts.

I hope some of this helps, it is only my own thoughts. I feel the same way you do often enough - have a beer on me and enjoy the week end
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0 AJJewsbury over 4 years ago

Thanks Andy - I will have to discuss this with the local authority i guess to fully understand the procedure because as it stands, i dont understand how the LABC will be able to check after the job is complete. Surely they will need to visit at particular stages of the install to be worth checking it at all?

Indeed - I've been through my local building control route a couple of times over the years - both times they wanted to inspect 'first fix' before any cables were covered over. Just getting cables within zones and grommets on the boxes usually earns you a "you seem to know what you're doing" comment. On the first job (kitchen extension) that's all they did as far as I remember - the second time (part of a complete renovation) a few years later they sent in one of their council electricians (plus apprentice) to spend an entire day doing a full I&T once it was complete. I gather the difference was that they used to have a BCO who 'knew a bit about electrics' who would sniff out the bad jobs early - but having lost him they had to resort to sending in real electricians to every job.

- Andy.
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0 lyledunn over 4 years ago

I have to say, first class piece Tattyengland, very insightful indeed. I will have 38 years under my belt come October this year. I announced my intention to go self-employed at my wedding reception. I think my new father-in-law almost went into apocalyptic shock with my own father not far behind! Much in your piece gels with my own experience, however, I didn’t have a road map and just went as and when opportunities arose. I went to my first job on a push bike and as things picked up I used the wife’s car until I bought my first van, a second hand Fiat Fiorino. Eventually forced over the VAT threshold it spurred me on to become a real business. At one stage I had 20 lads and even more on a casual basis. I loved motor control but it just didn’t happen. Everything steered me towards the hospitality industry. We undertook M and E for a large fit-out company which failed owing me a ton of money. I took them over and was the main contractor on fit outs for twenty years. Never ever intended that but there you go!

should also say that all through those years, I kept my hand in by teaching part time. That definitely helped me keep close to the electrical installation industry and I am very glad about that!
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0 Chris Pearson over 4 years ago

lyledunn:

I kept my hand in by teaching part time. That definitely helped me keep close to the electrical installation industry and I am very glad about that!

Two advantages there: (1) diversification (similar to diversity ? ): if one area of activity is low, another one may be higher; (2) when teaching you have to be able to answer students' questions, which really does keep you on your toes.
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0 Former Community Member over 4 years ago

tattyinengland:

Back in 2010 I wrote a company manifesto - an aim - a goal - an eventual destination - so that i could determine where i was back then and where I wanted to head to.

I'd been "in business" for 3 years and an NICEIC AC for 1 year: It is still a manifesto that I refer to all the time to ensure my company is still on course.

In addition to what I wrote then, I'd add - it is very important to use quickbooks or a similar accounts package like XERO right from the word go - your life will be so much easier than trying to use excell or similar.

This was in reply to a guy who posted on this (old) forum about his own troubles at the time.

From 2010:

It seems to me you need a slight change of direction.

I have had a real sit down and think on this same subject in about August last year and here are some of my thoughts; I hope I do not do myself out of work based on them; Please bear with me - these are only my thoughts that have taken years to begin to bear fruit, but they may help you.. (I am not a hugely successful business either but I'm as busy as hell at the moment so here we go:

I'm fairly sure that any one of the self employed/small companies around feel your pain keenly. Last year I was in the same boat, and decided that the domestic scene in all it's shapes and forms with the one exception of really smart houses, which come along very infrequently indeed, was a market that had to be avoided if possible.

There are too many people in this sector; competition driving down prices everywhere. Any big construction sparks, from when construction was booming, probably found when the work ran out - as I did - that a small one man band just does not get a look at commercial work, regardless of your experience in this sector. Hence the first stop - the domestic shark tank, which was, and still remains, the only niche really for a one man band operating on a self employed basis. (unless you can find big companies to sub to)

The domestic market has too many short cut sparks in it - further driving up competition. Every single spark can do domestic work to various degrees of competency.

So decide where you want to fit in -

1) Domestic - well no, I don't want to fit in here, but will pick up the work if it is profitable.

2) Commercial - yes, I'd like to fit in somewhere here. By fit in, I mean as the primary principal contractor supplying directly to the client - not as a subby to a large company.

3) Industrial - I'd love to fit in here especially in automation and control pannels as I've done loads of this sort of work - but have little or no "in" to this sector, but will keep the business aims and focus open to this sort of work. Invite it - if you will.

So I have decide what sector (s) I'd like to cater to, how to get it?

So back to exploring the sector that is commercial - what and where can I fit?

As a small business I am never ever going to get in if I look and feel like a one man band/maintenance/odd job man; Big electrical installation and maintenance companies use people like this all the time - people who want to arrive for work at 0800 and leave at 1700- there's nothing wrong with this at all; but it's not a business. Subbing to big companies is the same result - when the big company runs out of work, you have no customer base, no work and are in dire sh1t. You'd be better off employed with benefits. This is not a business either.

Step 1: Look and feel attractive to your customer base -

How to do this: In my own case -

1) form a ltd company

I did this a few years ago heading towards being a proper business in the future with the view that in a few years time that I could say I'd been operating for many years - other companies like this and are reassured by it.

2) In order to look and feel like a company, to other companies, I need to be a part of a recognisable governing body; this is reassuring to the commercial customer (NICEIC AC)

3) All my paper work takes priority numero uno. It is formatted correctly, is uniform, looks professional and has all the required details on it that any business anywhere will need - this is all open public information anyway, just summed up on headers/ footers/ signatures. Other companies are reassured by this.

Step 2: Identify your own strengths: Try to find areas where I differentiate from most other sparks. Find those market sectors that are under catered to or the majority of electricians are afraid of - if you're afraid of it or don't know anything about it, it is likely other sparks are in the same boat; find out - and do it.

Step 3: Market your selves as an indeterminate sized company, avoid reference to small or large. Advertise on the best place to be seen by your customer base - in my case I've tried loads of of cheap stuff; best value for money in my experience - Yell.com

Step 4: Always continue to aim for your eventual goal. Never play or work to the lowest common denominator - you'll find you are the lowest common denominator soon enough if you do. Always find challenges - this come in all forms - sometimes that comes in running a business; especially cash flow. My, and many small businesses biggest killer.

Step 5: Stay determined, this down period is just for now, the business is forever - at least until I retire in 30 odd years. Think long term thoughts.

I hope some of this helps, it is only my own thoughts. I feel the same way you do often enough - have a beer on me and enjoy the week end

This is brilliant mate - Thank you ??
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Self employed Electrician set up query

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