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The hidden cost of net zero

Jon Steward
https://www.thegwpf.org/content/uploads/2020/07/Travers-Net-Zero-Distribution-Grid-Replacement.pdf?utm_source=CCNet+Newsletter&utm_campaign=85fbfa3557-EMAIL_CAMPAIGN_2020_07_16_12_54_COPY_01&utm_medium=email&utm_term=0_fe4b2f45ef-85fbfa3557-36405153&mc_cid=85fbfa3557&mc_eid=1127dc9b41


If you aren't aware, worth a read through.
  • 0
    Sparkingchip:
    e6f9843d3b2afd7625e84d063800daaa-original-20200714_181815.jpg




    Is it possible to fit a  BS EN 60439-3 three phase distribution board in a domestic property without it being a non- compliance with BS 7671?


  • 0
    Because logically that means it is not possible to install a three phase EV charger on an UK domestic property and fully comply with BS7671.


    Isn’t about time that the wiring regulations committee and manufacturers along with other interested parties actually started to design a three phase domestic electrical installation along with the required equipment, making sure that in new build houses and major refurbishments of domestic properties the electrical installations are really fit for purpose?


    I am not saying you cannot currently source suitable equipment, but I think you will fail to comply to BS7671 by installing three phase distribution boards in domestic properties.


    If I need to get the service cable replaced to have an EV fast charger at home it makes sense to switch to three phase, but actually selecting an appropriate distribution board to use as a consumer unit is not as straightforward as it should be.


    Andy Betteridge 

  • 0
    That Andy is complete rubbish. You say you carry out EICRs, well I think you shouldn't for obvious reasons. You simply do NOT understand the regulations! BS7671 is not saying that domestic installs must use a CU (they can use any switchgear they require). In a large house with perhaps 20 bedrooms and commercial sized kitchen, electric heating, etc, you would expect to install a CU although you have a 3 phase 200A head? You simply have a completely wrong idea here. Why can you not fit a CU? I expect you will have some difficulty finding out, despite having the CU standard in front of you!
  • 0
    In more recent cabling, the three live phases are all insulated in brown (with neutral in black and the earth green and yellow). So now it is nearly impossible to identify which phase goes into which house.

    I'll wait to see what our DNO members have to say, but I strongly suspect that's complete, utter and total rubbish (on several points). If that's the level of their understanding I'm not sure I'll bother reading the rest.

       -  Andy.
  • 0
    davezawadi (David Stone):

    That Andy is complete rubbish. You say you carry out EICRs, well I think you shouldn't for obvious reasons. You simply do NOT understand the regulations! BS7671 is not saying that domestic installs must use a CU (they can use any switchgear they require). In a large house with perhaps 20 bedrooms and commercial sized kitchen, electric heating, etc, you would expect to install a CU although you have a 3 phase 200A head? You simply have a completely wrong idea here. Why can you not fit a CU? I expect you will have some difficulty finding out, despite having the CU standard in front of you!




    It clearly says “shall comply” and “and shall”.


    Where is it proposing an alternative?


    Andy Betteridge 


     


  • 0
    Sparkingchip:

    Is there such a thing as a BS EN 61439-3 compliant three phase domestic consumer unit?

     


    Common 3ph DBs would still meet that spec.

    For example, Schneider Isobar type B:
    https://download.schneider-electric.com/files?p_enDocType=Catalog&p_File_Name=Cat_FD.pdf&p_Doc_Ref=Cat_FD19UK

    (Page 27 references BS EN 61439-3)


    I would note that BS EN 60439-3 was superseded by BS EN 61439-3 in 2012. So you won't find any new CUs of any size claiming it (one hopes), which might be impeding your search?


  • 0
    tattyinengland:

    Surely a three phase distribution board is always made of metal? I've fitted a few three phase domestic DBs over the years and dont kn ow why they wouldn't comply? I certainly wouldn't call them "domestic" though as they are the same DBs I'd fit in a commercial building. 


    I didn't know you could get a three phase DB any other way unless you used three single phase boards perhaps? These would then be metal anyway?


    Kind Regards

    Tatty




    I met a plastic 3ph DB fitted by an overseas contractor working in the UK. It was in a HV switchroom so got removed sharpish as it didn't meet spec in all sorts of ways. But they exist.


  • 0

    Definitions of shall




    • when drafting a legal document, the term shall is used to say that something must be done, as opposed to the term may which simply means that something is allowed (ie that it can be done, but does not have to be done)

      https://www.translegal.com/dictionary/en/shall/verb



  • 0
    The point I am actually trying to make is that a major shakeup is required, as currently domestic consumer units installed in the UK are barely fit for purpose and the current offering of replacements are not much better.


    If supplies are going to be upgraded to a 100-amp single phase for an EV charger we are going to have to consider the suitability of the existing consumer units for continued use and the installation of the additional circuit.


    If consumers start having three phase supplies installed then there is going to have to be an upgrade of the existing consumer unit or at least some thought put to how it can be repurposed as part of a three phase installation.


    Andy Betteridge
  • 0
    Jam:
    Sparkingchip:

    Is there such a thing as a BS EN 61439-3 compliant three phase domestic consumer unit?

     


    Common 3ph DBs would still meet that spec.

    For example, Schneider Isobar type B:
    https://download.schneider-electric.com/files?p_enDocType=Catalog&p_File_Name=Cat_FD.pdf&p_Doc_Ref=Cat_FD19UK

    (Page 27 references BS EN 61439-3)


    I would note that BS EN 60439-3 was superseded by BS EN 61439-3 in 2012. So you won't find any new CUs of any size claiming it (one hopes), which might be impeding your search?






    There is a reference on Page 51.


     


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