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17th edition design given 18th edition certifcate

Former Community Member
Former Community Member
Hello, I recently purchased a new build home on a small development; a rather unique situation has occurred that I thought was interesting and might interest some people here to discuss. It's still currently unresolved but progress is being made.


The house has a NICEIC BS 7671: 2018 domestic electrical installation certificate dated 5/2/20 with no departures identified; with the only comment being no water bond due to plastic pipework. I noticed that no SPD had been fitted so asked the contractor for the completed risk assessment to determine that it was not needed. Initially they did not know what I was on about and then said that no SPD was fitted due to the initial design being done in December 2018 to the 17th edition. So far so good!


However on the electrical designs I have there was a revision on 27/5/2019 and at my request I later paid for an additional £1700 of fixed LED lighting to be installed throughout on 20/11/2019. After bringing this up I was told it was still to the 17th and that "any subsequent revisions are based on the regulations in force at the time of the original design". The installation certificate includes these lighting changes as many more (20+) positions are served on the circuits, everything else seems to be as the 27/5/2019 revision design.


I then asked why a 18th edition certificate had been issued with no note of that the installation is actually to 17th design and standard and was told that they had used up all their 17th edition certificates during the grace period, that the NICEIC had advised them to use 18th edition certificates but place "n/a" on items pertaining to SPDs and that their response is to amend the existing certificate to note that the installation was carried out to the 17th edition regulations.


I can forgive that yes, even a brand new home can be delivered not to the latest regulation due to a design from a grace period (as always regulations can be updated quicker than projects) but I do not get a good feeling from the 18th edition certificate being issued on a 17th edition design and installation without any indication - certainly the other homeowners on the development may not be as keen on protecting their extra gizmos as I am!



 


  • 0
    Hi Newbuild,

    yes that`s actually what we call a 1 signature cert.


    The model form has three parts:-


    1/ Design.

    2/ Construction,

    3/ Inspect and test.

    That`s a 3 sig.


    The easier to fill in is where one contractor does all 3 so that is a 1 sig.


    On some (say NIECEIC for example) the supervisor might additionally sign as the only one who actually is registered/tested . The amount of supervision might be anything between "Right have you finished that job" to actually going on site an giving some, a bit or a lot of supervision. In reality it`s often the case that the supervisor has never even left the office. If I ever get one with spaces for supervisor I just fill everything else in then strike that box out with "N/A" as I am my own supervisor (or "Qualifying Supervisor" as some call it
  • Former Community Member
    0 Former Community Member
    Thanks for qualifying that.


    As far as I can tell no major issues with the install, few light switches upside down and many sockets not level with each other to be addressed. Cables behind / in kitchen units unclipped, but all on RCD group so "ok".


    Downlights were specified by me to be nice enlite units, so easy to install plus give a wide beam angle :) - not had an issue with the non replaceables from this brand. They also put the PROs in so would hope they did the full circuit tests without the downlights plugged in.


    Everything is caulked in so can't look further.


    ​​​​​

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  • 0
    ebee:

    ... If I ever get one with spaces for supervisor I just fill everything else in then strike that box out with "N/A" as I am my own supervisor (or "Qualifying Supervisor" as some call it


    I was told by my assessor to sign both boxes. The QS one wearing your QS hat. Makes sense really since putting N/A there doesn't convey that you are the QS, just that for some unspecified reason it is N/A.


  • 0
    If the contractor paid to use online certificate software to produce the certificates I doubt there was an option to “back date” the installation by using 17th edition forms, they would have to use 18th forms and amend as required.


    Filling in the SPD box as “N/A” may be acceptable if the design date is noted or if the SPD is not actually required.


    As I said above if the only reason a SPD is required is because of the additional work ordered by the customer then the cost of supplying and installing the SPD should have been added onto the cost of the extra work as a chargeable item.
  • 0
    Newbuild:

    ..

    Everything is caulked in so can't look further.


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    They caulked the downlights into the ceiling? How will they ever be inspected in the future?


  • Former Community Member
    0 Former Community Member
    Haha no downlights are not caulked thankfully! 

    ​​​​

    Certificate has been done with a pen.
  • 0
    ebee:

    Well I don`t suppose that I will actually surprise any of you good people if I say that I`m aware of just one house actually being inspected and tested and results noted, per every 20 to 30 houses built then the results copied to give one cert per house. No wonder some houses have incomplete rings etc for years after.


    That would bring a new meaning to sampling in the context of an EICR! ? No it doesn't surprise me and I don't suppose that they even thought to increase the Ze as they go down the street.


  • 0
    Well Chris, I would think they might have made a little variation between each cert but more by a stroke of the pen in a drive by sort of fashion if at all ?
  • Former Community Member
    0 Former Community Member
    Each house was completed in turn with about 2 months in-between so I will ask my neighbours!


    I've now found the in island extraction unit is isolated via double socket behind a drawer blank - will check if it's a double pole switch later ... And will not be opening that can of worms here again!


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  • 0
    Interesting, so the installing electrician is responsible for all the stages, and then the QS has signed. In my view this does not meet the requirements of BS7671, as the design was presumably done by an unknown third party. In a build like this, the design (Circuits, positions of accessories, cable sizes CPD ratings, etc.) will usually be done by a designer working for the Architect and the Electrical sub-contractor does the work.

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