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Follow up question: quote for connection and local supply issue

Morgan Phillips
Thanks for the fantastic replies I had to my previous question, helping me to understand the supply locally and enabling me to successfully push back on the quote/plan provided. 


I now have one further query.


WPD say that if they were upgrading the local network they would overlay the current 95mm wcon cable with a 185mm wcon cable, but that this alone would not be sufficient to allow for my property to be connected to the local network. Instead, they said that for me to be connected, a 300mm wcon cable needs to be laid, and they want me to fund the difference between the 185 cable and the 300 cable. 


As they were less than scrupulously transparent in their previous quote, I would like to check if anybody has any thoughts on the veracity of this? Why would upgrading to a 185mm cable not allow sufficient capacity to add my supply? Why would they not, if doing an upgrade and presumably incurring significant cost, simply upgrade to future proof the local supply with a 300mm2 cable?


I'm particularly concerned that what they have said about replacing the 95mm2 cable with a 185mm2 cable (that this would not be sufficient to connect me to the supply) is untrue.

Plan of existing supply.pdf
Updated plan for new supply.png
  • 0
    Brilliant thinking!! Thank you, that's a really good suggestion. I will have a chat with the WPD chap and see what he says...
  • 0
    Quick update on this - I asked WPD the following questions and received the answers below:

     
    1. What are your assumptions about the power requirements for my property?
    We would quote your property at 15 Kw which is our box standard supply for a house. As regards to what your load is going to be I would not know that.

     


    2. What are the loadings on the existing cable?  
    188.5A

     


    3. When you overlay the 185mm2 cable, why not use the existing 95mm2 cable for my supply directly (given that it will be in situ and no longer needed)?
    Overlaying with a 185mm cable and using the old 95mm cable as your service cable is still causing a problem, to alleviate this the cable needs to go to a 300mm one.

    4/Just for information, all new services into properties will be 3 phase, this will be WPD’s minimum cable as from last week, you can still have a single phase meter of it.

     


    I’m not sure what this means for my enquiry about why I am being asked to fund the upgraded (300mm2) cable - and there is a paucity of explanation as to why the existing cable can’t be used for my property. I am wondering whether to speak to the WPD chap on the phone (as he has tried calling me a few times) but I don’t really know what I need to know, or what the information he is giving me means. I just know what I am a little dubious having had them try to fleece me in the first place.



    Any assistance with understanding this would be most appreciated.



    Cheers

    Morgan


  • 0
    (1) Not really answered, but they seem to assume that your load will be <= 63 A. A 15 kVA supply hardly seems consistent with (4). Providing 3-phase up to the cut out seems v. sensible, but doesn't treble the agreed supply. Perhaps they are looking ahead to EV charging points?


    (2) According to the Eland data above, 95 mm² is good for 227 A (in ducts) so I can see the need to go up to 185 mm², but no further as things stand.


    (3) They haven't really explained themselves.


    I think that Morgan needs to speak to WPD.
  • 0
    Sorry - missed the fact it was a new post.

    Ah, they are wiggling again..


    So if the 95mm cable is now carrying 188.5 amps  per phase (though this level of precision is like measuring a walnut with a micrometer - a different silly answer each time, I bet that is not a properly measured value -  if they had said "ooh about 150-200A depending on the day"  that would be more credible.) then they need to change it anyway.


    Adding your 15KVA supply (3 phases or 5kW  each  ( or if you  prefer, about 21 odd amps each phase)  pushes it to 219.5 amps.


    They still need to change it, and still to the same thing .

    It is probably still cheaper for you to have a feed, just for you, teed off from nearer the substation, and if that is the cheaper option, then either they give you that or fund the difference.

    They may be hoping you will just roll over at some point.

    regards,

    Mike.

  • 0
    My thoughts are with the forthcoming electrical contractor, perhaps we should warn him?


    Regards, UKPNZap
  • 0
    ? all compliments gratefully received ???
  • 0
    Thanks Mike, that's really interesting and helpful. I agree, I think they are trying to wear me down with vagueness and hope that the delay of dragging these answers out of them will force me to accept their offer so as to get the supply in situ by the time the build is due to begin. 

    I would be more open to accepting what they have said if I felt that they were being genuinely open, and acting fairly, rather than seeing how much they can get me to contribute to their infrastructure upgrade.

    Anyhoo, I will give this chap a call as try to get clear answers in writing is obviously a lost cause. See where that takes me.

    Thanks again for your helpful replies. I couldn't do this without your collective knowledge!

    M
  • Former Community Member
    0 Former Community Member
    Morgan.

    The DNO is required to provide a supply within certain voltage limits. It might be that the user at the end of the line could be receiving a supply outside these parameters (typically undervoltage). If this is the case, the DNO would be required to remedy the situation. It could be that a commercial user is exceeding their Authorised Supply Capacity (ASC) causing a voltage drop but it may just be the quantity of domestic users connected to what appears to be a cable installed for less (fewer, I can never remember!) connections.

    Perhaps a word with a few neighbours at the far end to see if they are experiencing "flicker". A very simple test is to use a 13 A plug in energy monitor (used to be £10 from Maplins) and read the voltage and then plug in a kettle and see what it drops to.

    Or, get someone with a load recorder and pay for a week's monitoring and if outside parameters, bring this to the attention of the DNO for them to repeat the monitoring and see what they say?!!!!

    Regards

    BOD

    PS Hopefully a helpful and constructive post................
  • 0
    Perhaps a word with a few neighbours and ask if they have any flickering and then go back to the DNO. (again!!!!!)


    And report back to the forum, and the usual wafflers/DNO bashers will advise. 


    I wait in breath taking excitement for the Electrical contractors price. When the quote comes in and its more than £ 500 for a 4 bed house he will need the 999 service. 


    Regards, (again!) UKPN


  • 0
    less (fewer, I can never remember!)

    in my head ...


    less for things you measure (continuously variable quantities)


    fewer for things you count (things that can only be integers)


    So fewer eggs might mean more egg, if you had a smaller number of much larger eggs.


       - Andy. 


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