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Commercial EICR strategy?

Former Community Member over 4 years ago

Hi,

I've been tasked to do some EICR's on some commercial Car Showrooms. There's lots of old DB's, little or no circuit details and the previous EICR's stated that nothing could be tested due to not wanting circuits switched off. Personally I don't think it's worth even reporting if you aren't testing anything?

I wondered if anyone had a strategy for dealing with these situations. I'm not looking for anymore work so I'd rather not fail anything unless I absolutely have to. The customer wants as little interruption to the supply as possible.

A possible strategy:

Visual check

Identify circuits where possible

Take Zs readings where possible

Check db's for signs of thermal damage

Zsdb and ipf's

Check bonding

Check tightness of terminals in db's and sampled accessories

Report on what I've seen and tested with limitations on everything else.

It is going to be impossible to identify cpc's and neutrals associated with each circuit. IR testing would have to be very limited.

Below is a picture of what I am up against. There's a mix of old and new db's with many BS3871 MCB's.

f3685b9e83139223d5bf313572195363-huge-honda-mains-position.jpg

f3685b9e83139223d5bf313572195363-huge-honda-mains-position.jpg

Any advice guy's?

0 Legh Richardson over 4 years ago

perspicacious:
chap who after leaving Southern Elec went off to do bank jobs

Did he ever get caught Legh?

Regards

BAD

Of course not. In after dark and Out before the sun rose.

Left the place spick and span, no nails, screws, dust and wiring detritus on the carpets Skirting boards replaced and newly painted left to dry in place. New sockets and switches ready to use but alas no wife.

After several years of making good money his wife ran off to enjoy evenings and weekends with somebody else.

Legh
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0 John Peckham over 4 years ago

Bod

Looks like 3 meters to me?
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0 Former Community Member over 4 years ago

I've yet to learn how to enlarge the posted image John, but I thought the far left one was a single-phase check meter but it now looks as if its a separate incoming single-phase supply cut out under it.......

Did you like the sheared brass bolt image I sent you for your files?!

Regards

BED
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0 Former Community Member over 4 years ago

tattyinengland:

If you have to only do live testing (Which does happen in some environments) a very helpful addition to what you have described above is a mA Earth leak detection on the tails - this will give a good indication of possible IR deficiencies - especially any N-E faults (Lots of Amps earth leakage). Further Investigations may be then be the outcome to the EICR.

Afternoon tatty,

First time I've tried this but I've clamped the tails on various DB's.

On the Main DB that feeds 5 other DB's around the unit including the Comms room I'm getting around 50mA which peaks at around 75mA every so often.

There's an Aircon DB which I get a pretty constant 40mA at.

There's a showroom lighting and general power DB which I get 20mA at.

How do those figures look? Would I be looking for readings of Amps rather than mA to indicate possible issues?

Cheers
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0 Former Community Member over 4 years ago

wallywombat:

You could ask them why they've requested an EICR and/or what they want out of it. The answer to that would influence the testing strategy and scope. To comply with their insurance company's requirements? Or they want an idea of whether they need a major rewire/upgrade? Or random things keep tripping and taking out lots of other stuff and its getting annoying? Or they're just H&S conscious?

Hi Wally, it's for insurance purposes. Anyone know what insurance companies are looking for?
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0 Former Community Member over 4 years ago

Would a 30 mA RCD stay in at these values?

Regards

BOD
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0 Former Community Member over 4 years ago

Anyone know what insurance companies are looking for?

Yes, to pass the risk onto you if you issue a satisfactory EICR, hence the need for PI insurance and your willingness to stand up in court to explain why you didn't record as unsatisfactory the item that you're up in court for!

As above, risk and reward.

Regards

BOD
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0 Former Community Member over 4 years ago

John Peckham:

Bod

Looks like 3 meters to me?

Hi John,

The main service head, 3 ph, feeds one meter (right hand lower) and the majority of the db's via henleys.

There's a PV import meter (above main meter). PV feeds into henley blocks.

Looks like the supply is looped to the left, single phase, to feed a economy 7 which feeds a redundant storage heater board and an Air Con board.
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0 wallywombat over 4 years ago

AJ Spark:
Hi Wally, it's for insurance purposes. Anyone know what insurance companies are looking for?

Fundamentally they're looking for a satisfactory report, so that they have less risk of paying out for the the building burning down or someone being electrocuted.

If that's the case, then the car showroom people will probably be very happy to agree in advance with you that many things can't be tested (e.g. no power downs due to customers on site / cars being serviced etc). The idea being that this will cause you to issue a satisfactory report - a report which is very clear on what the agreed limitations on inspection were.
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0 Former Community Member over 4 years ago

Hi BOD, looks like I'd have issues on the Aircon db but the rest would be OK if those 5 db's shared the leakage? I've not used this method before so I'm not sure what to expect in terms of leakage. What's your take on it? Cheers
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Commercial EICR strategy?

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