Fire Risk Assessment.

Sparkingchip:

The fire risk assessor specifies the grade and types of alarm system, they don’t design the layout and electrical installation.

Are you saying that the fire risk assessor is not responsible for the positioning of the various detectors?

Alan Capon:

Zoomup:

This subject is just too complicated for me. I will delegate all responsibility for design to A.N. Other-Specialist. I will just concern myself with the actual installation.

If you are accepting responsibility for the FIre Risk Assessment and delegating it, you need to be clear where the liability lies - yours or your subcontractors. The PI insurance required for a FRA is significant, and normally not covered by a standard policy. You may even find it is excluded by the small print in your existing policy. 

I think that we have discussed this not long ago.


I would happily install a circuit for mains powered alarms, and issue an EIC, but I would not certify a fire detection and alarm system. I think that they are too very different matters.


It really does not seem very different from a householder screwing some brackets into the ceilings and attaching battery-powered alarms.


I think that Zoomup has the delegation the wrong way round. The fire risk assessor is delegating the installation of the wiring to the electrician.


Perhaps that is all beside the point. What certification is required for an ordinary domestic system?

lyledunn:

The fire risk assessor is generally looking at an existing building which is occupied and will assess the risk of fire taking in to account the potential ignition sources, the existing control measures and the management oversight of them. So, for example, he or she may consider travel distances to be a tad too long and may recommend upgrading the category of fire alarm to compensate. However, it is not their function to design the system.

We are increasingly finding that our services are required at an early stage in the design process where we will produce a fire safety strategy to assist the architect in delivering a fire compliant proposal. 

The professional title of "we" is what please?


Z.

Alan Capon:

Zoomup:

This subject is just too complicated for me. I will delegate all responsibility for design to A.N. Other-Specialist. I will just concern myself with the actual installation.

If you are accepting responsibility for the FIre Risk Assessment and delegating it, you need to be clear where the liability lies - yours or your subcontractors. The PI insurance required for a FRA is significant, and normally not covered by a standard policy. You may even find it is excluded by the small print in your existing policy. 


Regards,


Alan. 

Alan, I am not suitably qualified or experienced enough to legally design a fire alarm system. I have insufficient knowledge of the rules and regulations. I know my limitations.


Look....

Fire Alarm System Design Guide | Channel Safety Systems


Z.

Sparkingchip:

Zoomup:

Good morning all,


 What qualifications does a fire risk assessor have to have to be competent, and to be able to comply legally with his designs for fire alarm systems etc?



Z.

The fire risk assessor specifies the grade and types of alarm system, they don’t design the layout and electrical installation.

But presumably could do so.


Z.

Alan Capon:

Zoomup:

This subject is just too complicated for me. I will delegate all responsibility for design to A.N. Other-Specialist. I will just concern myself with the actual installation.

If you are accepting responsibility for the FIre Risk Assessment and delegating it, you need to be clear where the liability lies - yours or your subcontractors. The PI insurance required for a FRA is significant, and normally not covered by a standard policy. You may even find it is excluded by the small print in your existing policy. 


Regards,


Alan. 

I will get the customer to directly employ the fire risk assessor and to deal directly with him. I will just be the grunt that throws the cables in.


Z.

Sparkingchip:

For a HMO licence the Council may  say an alarm system to BS5839:Part 6 LD2 Grade D1 is required, they won’t supply a plan and specification, they will just do a visual inspection and ask for the alarm and electrical certificates after it’s installed.


Similarly the fire risk assessor may say an alarm system to BS5839:Part 6 LD2 Grade D1 is required, but generally they are not going to give any further information or come back to check it after it’s installed.


Also bear in mind the fire risk assessment is not a one off, the landlord needs to keep the fire risk assessment updated, particularly if there’s a change of circumstances or in legislation.


During the last year a lot of landlords have reduced the number of bedrooms in HMOs, because Council licensing requires more space in communal areas, so rather than trying to extend kitchens and lounges the landlords have reduced the number of bedrooms and used p the empty bedrooms to create en-suite bathrooms and additional shared bathrooms, in one HMO a bathroom has been moved from being off the kitchen into a former bedroom upstairs, then a laundry utility room room created off the kitchen, then the washing machine and dryer moved out of the kitchen into the new laundry, the purpose of these alterations being that the landlords can increase the rent on the bedrooms they are retaining as there are better facilities, so overall they still get around the same income despite having less tenants. But this means the fire alarm system needs altering and the risk assessment needs formally reviewing. 


There should be a lot of input from the electrical contractor, the problem is though from the contractors point of view is that landlords think it’s just a few smoke alarms and don’t consider it to be a fire alarm system that needs design, installation and certification along with ongoing maintenance and checks. When they eventually get someone to check it because they have to get a certificate to renew the licence it is quite common to find expired alarms and/or batteries with a potential cost of over £600 to upgrade the system with new alarms being installed.

This is the chaos that ensues when the "authorities" delegate life saving methods and systems from professionals to the great unqualified unwashed.


Z.