I want to move to a slightly different branch of the EICR question, and this should cover the range of Electrical work. What makes an Electrician Competent? What makes an Inspector competent, whether for an EICR or EICs?
I want to move to a slightly different branch of the EICR question, and this should cover the range of Electrical work. What makes an Electrician Competent? What makes an Inspector competent, whether for an EICR or EICs?
One of the questions I answered in my City and Guilds 2360 part 2 exam required me to calculate the level of the illumination on a work bench, then to determine what difference it would make if the bench was moved by two metres.
Could I call myself a competent electrician if I could not have answered that question?
davezawadi (David Stone):
This thread has not quite gone where I hoped. We know the general definition, I would like comments on whether these are met by electricians in general, and if not where we need improvements. Thanks.
Kind regards
David
I once had to assess 4 very competent industrial installation electricians for the C&G2391. I had to turn the 4 day assessment course into a training course (to the constination of the training company) as none of them had ever used any of the standard set of test instruments.
IMO experience across a wide range of electrical installations and processes for a period of not less than 10 years will provide some of the skills that will make a reasonable inspection engineer. Sounds hard to be sure but then you would have to come away from engineering and become specific technicians focusing on a limited range of installations.
Now, if the BS7671 stays non- retrospective then the above would be appropriate, but if, as the new rules implied by the Electrical installations in rented properties then the whole process becomes retrospective and would need to be inspected to whatever the current regulations are.
So little or no experience is also implied when testing to current regulations as opposed to assess across a range in time for safety.
Legh
davezawadi (David Stone):
This thread has not quite gone where I hoped. We know the general definition, I would like comments on whether these are met by electricians in general, and if not where we need improvements.
I don't think that question can be answered. As I am sure your daughter has mentioned, doctors have annual appraisals. Members of the judiciary have them periodically too. I was, however, a little surprised to find that electricians have them, or at least registered ones do. (Surprisingly, surgeons do not have to demonstrate their hand skills to a colleague. ? ) So that's a start and the two schemes must have data on pass rates. (Whether the assessments are rigorous enough is a separate question.)
Registered sparks must have the current BS 7671 C&G. IIRC, pass rates are published.
Would it be rude to ask to see an electrician/inspector's qualifications, or even CV (assuming that he or she had one)? I think so.
So we go by word of mouth, the local advertising booklets that drop through the letterbox every month, tradesmen's web sites, and so on. I don't quite see how a customer can be sure that an electrician is competent, even after work has been completed. Satisfaction is another matter entirely.
Sparkingchip:
One of the questions I answered in my City and Guilds 2360 part 2 exam required me to calculate the level of the illumination on a work bench, then to determine what difference it would make if the bench was moved by two metres.
Could I call myself a competent electrician if I could not have answered that question?
So when I did the City and Guilds 2360 part 2 was I being trained or educated?
It is fairly obvious that I can install lighting safely as an electrician without knowing how to do lighting design calculations.
It you look at some training school websites they make comments about the 2360 having “gaps” because it did not include training on testing and inspection, but that was not a gap as it was always an expectation that you would do the separate course and get the separate qualification.
Have the newer courses changed from being educational to being a training course, with instruction on what to do rather than how and why?
Would it really be too difficult to train someone how to install a new standard circuit for an appliance such as a cooker in a day including how to test and certify it, if you provide them with an installation guide with detailed instructions for reference with simple instructions saying “do this“ and “don’t do that”.
Sparkingchip, then you are saying an ability to follow the onsite guide makes one an electrician?
I assure you that I could do that when I was 16 or less, but I had much less knowledge of the actual regulations. I don't think this is the right level by a long way for an inspector, although it appears there are many out there who think it is. The attitude Andy may well be to go a good job, but the assessment of “bad jobs” is then very difficult to comprehend, but is essential for an Inspector.
Certainly "experience time" may be important, but if that is mainly first fixing new houses, then what?
But for competence we need someone who knows the art of the possible and can pick up someone else's design and make sense of it, even if they have not done anything exactly that way themselves.
That is a greater skill than rote learning - inspection of an existing thing that is not fully recorded is perhaps closer to fault finding in that sense, and I'd agree that on its own, an ability to follow the OSG as a recipe process is simply not enough.
Just because that cable arrangement is not one shown in the books, how to check if it will be fine, and an ability to interpolate current ratings for odd grouping factors, and to consider non-linear radials and so forth a huge advantage…
The ability to at least in principle author an equally valid alternative to sections of the OSG, maybe enough.
M.
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