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Electrical Vehicle Chargers - No Diversity?

Good afternoon

I have a question to address to more experienced engineers in here about the load calculations around EVCs

Its clearly stated in BS7671 that no diversity should be applied to an EVC

This is a bit weird to me as to the ramifications it has

So, assuming we have a TPN 32A EVC, this means you cant apply diversity and feed it with a 20A MCB. It should always be a 32A MCB

All good

What happens in case you have a DB feeding 5 off these chargers?

Assuming you do not have a load management facility between the 5 chargers, does the 'no diversity' mean I have to assume a DB charged with 5 x 32 = 160A load????

And protect it with 160A, and install a cable for 160A etc etc etc?

Is this what no diversity means for the EVCs?

Always assuming you do not have a load management system installed in the EVCs

Thanks

  • The cost of updating the infrastructure has been estimated at £3Trillion by National Grid. There are not enough materials from world supplies, not enough labour or plant etc., and so costs would go through the roof. Even if it were done electricity prices would probably have to multiply by 10. The whole idea is a significant "dead end" solution which cannot work for both technical and financial reasons. Those peddling electric everything have no answers, usually just "someone will invent something" or similar nonsense.

  • We don't need to invent anything.  With good engineering practices, and a willingness to do it, there is no technical reason why we can't make an appropriate increase in the supply availability in residential areas.  It doesn't need to be that huge.  Most people don't drive anywhere near 200 miles a day, so most cars won't even need charging daily.

    Overall, charging electric vehicles is not a massive drain on the grid.  The UK has lost a lot of heavy engineering over the last few decades, so the grid has plenty of capacity.  The problem is that the local distribution network is under-sized.

    We are currently going through a revolution in telephone and broadband, on a similar scale, ripping out all the old copper and replacing it with fibre.  If we can do that, there's no reason why we can't to the same with our electricity supplies.

    Luckily, the people running the country seem to be ignoring those using scare-mongering as a means to block progress.

  • It is most unfortunate you chose the fibre-roll out and land-line turn off as an example - I agree that good engineering can get you out of a hole.

    Things lead by non-technical  management gets you very firmly into one.
    The problem of moving phone to voip and then saying ' internet does not have a statutory service requirement, so no need to cost in for battery back up' has well and truly bitten them on the behind.

    https://www.northumberlandgazette.co.uk/news/people/bt-pauses-digital-phone-rollout-but-decision-too-late-for-some-northumberland-residents-3638553

    And rightly so, that one could have been seen coming by anyone who actually uses their phone.

    I presume BT openreach manglement assumed that because  London has mobile phone coverage and never has power cuts of more than  1 hour then the rest of the country is the same. A better solution with some sort of UPS could have been engineered for the consumer equipment, and indeed it could shut right down to save power and only support phone calls when the mains fails but it makes not attempt to do so, and merrily needs about 20watts for the fibre unit and the router ,so battery back up rapidly becomes messy.

    Not the best example by far.
    Mike

  • In london we've had fibre broadband company digging up the roads and laying ducting to each property 

    A bit of joined up thinking could have used those same ducts for power supplies, to save digging up twice.

    a bit like this Heineken Roadworks UK Advert - YouTube

  • Try This:

    Palo Alto is a small town!

    wattsupwiththat.com/2022/04/11/how-much-of-the-grid-must-be-upgraded/

  • We are currently going through a revolution in telephone and broadband, on a similar scale, ripping out all the old copper and replacing it with fibre.  If we can do that, there's no reason why we can't to the same with our electricity supplies.

    Not sure that it is "all the old copper". Around here, there is still copper cable (on poles) from the green box at the end of the street to the houses.

    As far as I can see, the telecoms cables run in ducts under the footway or grass verge, so not difficult to replace and of course, one fibre optic cable can carry many messages.

    By contrast, the electricity (and gas) mains are buried direct in the ground under the carriageways, so much more difficult and expensive to upgrade.

  • However, in our road there’s telephone cables strung between the poles, because they cannot get them through the underground ducts anymore.

  • As others have stated without a load management system then you have to assume diversity is 1. However there are options with a load management system which will help. One of them being a static load management system which regulates and distributes energy evenly and in real time between all connected vehicles, so as not to exceed the general static setpoint for the vehicle loads. This method allows you to evenly distribute available energy between all vehicles that are being charged. So if you had a bank of say 5 x 7.2kw chargers and only 3 vehicles were plugged in, depending on what the static set point is then it's possible all 3 could receive the full 7.2kw. Also once a car is fully charged then power will be diverted to another charger. 

    There are 2 others to consider but wont go into detail here and they are:

    Dynamic load management and Artificial intelligence-based load management. 

    If you wanted to use a smaller MCB like a 20amp then you will need to make sure the charger is configured properly, but by doing so you will reduce the kw output and get a slower charge. You can set them as low as 12amp.