AJJewsbury said:

BS 7671 calls it a "Firefighter's switch" not a Firefighters' emergency switch - it's in a section of its own (537.4) quite separate from the requirements for emergency switching off (537.3.3)

I already covered that ... the requirements for a Firefighter's Switch in BS 7671 are related only to HV signs.

The requirements in the 'Blue Book' for the Service Station's Emergency Switching is what GTB is highlighting. So, yes it uses the term 'firefighrer' but in actual fact it's an Emergency Switching [system] as discussed in BS 7671.

Zoomup said:

I do not think that anybody would drive a vehicle that was on fire into a filling station.

Perhaps not, but this hapless Irishman drove one out of a petrol station. Enjoy! https://www.casemine.com/judgement/uk/5a8ff87860d03e7f57ec102c

My use of the term "Fighters emergency switch" was an expression not a direct quotation. It stresses the need to use it in an emergency. 537.4.4 needs the Firefighter's switch information to be visible to a PERSON standing on the ground. Presumably it is to instruct ANYONE in the use of the switch in case of emergency, not just Firefighters.

Z.

On the other hand, 537.4.2.2(iii) states that the switch shall be "reasonably accessible to firefighters". I think it's pretty clear that the overall intent of BS 7671 and 537.4 in particular, is about providing a facility to firefighters to isolate lighting systems operating at HV.

Of course other standards may provide additional uses for firefighter's switches, but not BS 7671.

Presumably it is to instruct ANYONE in the use of the switch in case of emergency, not just Firefighters.

If that were the case they wouldn't be mounted out-of-reach. Seems much more likely to me that they're intended to be what it says on the tin - for Firefighters.

   - Andy.

Morning All,

For 41 years I have been trying to educate people the diffrence between a "Fire Fighter's" switch as defined in BS7671 for the reasons that Standard publication gives in 537.4. and the " Blue Book" for filling stations where there is a "Emergency Switch" now to all of you so called experienced electrical engineers, can you not understand that a Fire Fighter's  Switch is spelt diffrently from an " Emergency Switch"???? so there is a wee clue for you......................

So let me just repeat that again a Fire Fighter's switch is for use by a fire fighter for all the reasons described in BS7671 and would apply to all premises. Now on a filling station there are only a few out of the 8,500 Uk filling stations that still have Neon lighting operating above LV, so on that handful of properties there will be a fire fighter's switch mounted at a height no greater than 2.75M.

Totally seperate and absolutely F**k All to do with BS7671 in the " Blue Book" we insist on a emergency switch for use by the public and I have copied below the details of its use:

" Where the site is unattended, partially unattended, or attendant operated, an emergency switching device has to be provided in the forecourt area, outside of the hazardous areas, visible from all dispensing positions and readily accessible for rapid operation in emergency (i.e. it should not be positioned more than 2 metres above the ground). On large sites a number of suitably located operating means may be required to ensure rapid operation of the emergency switching device.

Where dispensers incorporate loudspeakers, the supply to the loudspeaker system has to be interrupted by the emergency switching arrangement. 

The operating means (such as handle or pushbutton) for the device is to be coloured red against a yellow background. Resetting this device alone should not restore the supply. The separate single means of restoring the supply should be manual and located within the building where it is inaccessible to unauthorised persons. 

A conspicuous, durable and legible notice has to be fitted adjacent to every operating means of the emergency switch device, as prescribed in 9.9.11.".

So thats an emergency switching device simple as that, and an emergency switching device can be either push button, rod or lever operated.

There are of course other emergency switching devices all on the same series circuit that would instantly shut down the fuel system and isolate all forms of energy from the haz areas, the console staff have access to one at each operator position at the counter.

But, although those site operators should see the emergency first and they hit the emergency stop, by placing one external as described for the public to use a member of the public may just see the incident occurring first and get to that device that little bit quicker.

Im dissapointed into some of the replies on this thread, if so called professional engineers cant read simple words, but also fail to understand simple terminology! then what chance do the operatives and technicians.

An apple is an apple end of story, but then again I might just start calling what you people call apple's as Oranges and see how you like it.

Read the definitions and regs please, and also use the appropriate technical document.

I have never once called a fire fighter's switch an emergency switch.

GTB

Quote. "A fireman's switch is a specialized switch that allows firefighters to quickly disconnect power from high voltage devices that may pose a danger in the event of an emergency. According to the Institution of Electrical Engineers, any electrical device operating at over 1,000 Volts AC or 1,500 volts DC, must be equipped with the switch."

So the switch is used in case of an emergency. Oh, and yes I know that the I.E.E. no longer exists.

Spot the Firefighters' switch

Forecourt Electricians | Electrical Certifications for filling station | CompEx Hazardous areas - YouTube

It is interesting to note that in the 1981 15th Editon a Fireman's switch appears under the heading of Emergency Switching.  In Reg. 476.12 it is called a Fireman's emergency switch. As it is used in an emergency that makes sense to me.

Z.

Zoomup!!

Can you please tell me what the issue is you are trying to solve or make enquiry about?

Above both Graham and myself have both explained the diffrences between a fire fighters switch and emergency switching device as the current BS7671 as amended describes. I have went further and indicated how the "Blue Book" which overrules BS7671 where appropriate on UK filling stations has defined the use of Fire Fighters Switches and emergency switching devices.

Your response back now in answer to myself and others is to give a hyper link to a promotional video for an electrical contractor?

So to end my involvement on this thread as you appear to just keep throwing in unrelated and curveball statements.

I know the requirements for UK filling Stations, how they are derived and how they should be applied and for the critical safety reasons behind those decisions because I have not only Co Chaired the full Stakeholders Committee for the Blue Book I have been a member of the specialist sub committee that deals with all electrical matters for the last twenty years.

You, I fear do not know about UK Filling stations nor the application and detail of the Blue Book, so please keep out of discussions you obviously know nothing about or indeed would fail to meet Reg 16 of the EAWR 1989 that you have insufficient knowledge and experience i.e competancy for filling station electrical installations.

So please do what you appear to be competent in and thats searching out weird and wonderful You Tube videos, posting the hyperlink then asking for peoples opinion on this forum or posting photos and doing likewise.

As you do not have anything constructive to say on this subject then fill your car up with suitable fuel safely and drive away into the horizon and keep going...................................................

GTB

"I have never once called a fire fighter's switch an emergency switch."

A Firefighter's switch is an emergency switch.  It fits the description in the 18th edition for emergency switching. Why differentiate?

This forum is to allow discussion, as suggested by the banner at the top of the initial page. I like to discuss. Disagreement may be part of discussions.

If I disagree with others' comments it is more "in sorrow rather than in anger." (Shakespeare's Hamlet's Horatio).

Z.