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Balanced 3 Phase Supply for EVC

Hi,

Please could someone advise on the following regarding EV chargers on a balanced 3 phase supply. 

We are proposing to install 3 x 75kw DC rapid chargers from a new DNO connection solely for the EV chargers. The chargers themselves only require 3 phase & earth and the only 230v supply from the new connection is a small anti-condensation heater within the feeder pillar (20w). 

Can I therefor still use the rule of thumb from CoP J4 as Regulation 722.411.4.1 (i) has now been removed from amendment 2? 

When I calculate using Regulation 722.411.4.1 (ii) I end up with a minus number so I assume this shows an earth electrode & PME supply is not suitable?

Thank you in advance.

Mark

  • Not if you want to comply with BS 7671:2018+A2:2022

    I guess one worry is that a broken PEN doesn't necessarily effect just a single installation - even if your installation is perfectly balanced with zero N current, the supply CNE could still be a long way from true Earth potential - due to connected loads in neighbouring installations, if the LV network is shared.

        - Andy.

  • We do get a TN-S when possible, saves all the maths and a bit of money. 

  • This is always the worry when not coming direct from the transformer and knowing what is connected to neighbouring supplies would be impossible to ascertain. 

    I am only asking about it as we are now have a new rapid DC charger in our portfolio which doesn't require the neutral so I was hoping we might be able to simplify the installation. 

    The other chargers we use all require neutrals and are not balanced and/or have both mode 3 & 4 so its not really been considered before. 

    Thank you for all your input.

  • It is a bit of an academic diversion, but you could have 3 heaters wired either star or delta, so the line load is equal on all 3, and the suppy neutral could then be removed.

    With a charger that supplies the car with DC this is likley to remain true, however, it would be a brave person that said that all cars that take 3 phases will always be  internally that well balanced when throwing around the fat end of 100A per phase. If it was a simple 6 diode bridge, and all cables were lovingly matched, maybe, but it is likely that in the 3 phase to the car case there is an array of six or 12 switching transistors and a very complex control algorithm to pulse modulate the conduction waveforms..

  • The chargers themselves only require 3 phase & earth

    So there is no neutral to lose.

  • note that no neutral does not always mean all 3 line currents are balanced, you can have a delta of 3 different resistances,  3 different line currents, and no neutral current, so if the PEN goes O/C there is no ground pull.

    Mike.

  • So there is no neutral to lose.

    Not quite - the Neutral may be there to provide the PE at the service head.

    However, in this case, OP has confirmed they are likely to use the N of the TPN for small single-phase loads at least (anti-condensation heaters)

  • Yes, I noticed that, but if it isn't part of the charger, does it matter?

  • Is that likely within the chargers themselves? My first thought was that by no means all cars can draw 3 phases, but then I realised that the chargers are DC so unless they became faulty, how would an imbalance arise?

  • I noticed that, but if it isn't part of the charger, does it matter?

    In the case of an open PEN event, the heater will pull the severed N/PE/installation metalwork up to the voltage of whichever line it's connected to. If there's no EV on charge at that moment (or the charger is only connected L-L-L), there's no (balanced) load that would create an artificial star point and  keep the N (& installation's PE) nearer zero.

       - Andy.