PAS 63100:2024 now available

I guess people are obsessing with lofts because it is going to prevent a lot of installations going forward on a cost basis. Personally I'm more bothered by the prohibiting of siting in basements that don't have access to the outside of a building (i mean what basements do? Oh of course the ones in America)
I was surprised that the issue of weight of batteries in lofts was not dealt with by enforcing a structure report similar to that required of solar panels on pitched roofs. I get the compartment issue but again theres a lot more lithium ion batteries in the US which is probably why they prefer locating the battery outside.

Also seems a little excessive to enforce LD2 level fire detection throughout the building if installing an inverter in the loft, or a battery in a permitted place indoors. I would have thought LD3 “plus” an additional linked detector where the ESS is sited would be adequate. 

All items that could be more realistically adopted and easily explained to the consumer.

Id prefer an evidence led cost benefit approach to managing risk. 

Im more worried about toddlers sticking usb leads in their mouths than i am with their ability to remove an Amphenol connector. You need strong hands for those. That said i take your point about being able to remove ‘on load’.

Martyn said:

the socials have started to pick up on it now…

Yes, I think it featured in a popular electrical industry news bulletin earlier this week.

Sadly does seem to have been missed by a  not insignificant number - the socials have started to pick up on it now…

I missed the comment phase…

gkenyon said:

Quite simply, the lack of a standard for domestic lithium batteries causes their selection to be a "non-standard approach" as far as BS 7671 is concerned.

The Abstract to BS EN IEC 63056, which is apparently under the umbrella of BS EN IEC 62619 states:

“Examples of appliances that are within the scope of this document are:

• telecommunications,

• central emergency lighting and alarm systems,

• stationary engine starting,

• photovoltaic systems,

• home (residential) energy storage systems (HESS), and

• large energy storage: on-grid/off-grid.”

So I do wonder if they are outside scope for BS7671? 

If a manufacturer supplies a complete solution, PCE, battery storage, all functional equipment monitoring and management as a ‘certified’ product, does BS7671 care or apply to the internals of said product? 

gkenyon said:

BS EN IEC 62485 series

I did look up that standard - I got to part 3 - Vehicles and then part 5 - which excludes lithium based batteries…

I might need a mortgage or at least shared in BSI soon! Ha! 

gkenyon said:

Hope this is useful ... please keep providing feedback as it will help standards develop as we use them.

Love a good debate! 

Thanks

Martyn

Still struggling with this ‘new’ forum, massive downgrade from the good ol’ days. 

Sergio Fernandez said:

OnSite Guide maybe.

Possibly, but domestic storage and PV are not well covered at the moment in OSG.

I'm a little concerned about the focus on "why not the loft", given other "in plain sight" issues that the PAS highlights.

For example, it's not unusual at the moment to see a gG NH-type fuseholder, that can be simply pulled on-load, even by children, to be installed. Or monoblocs (sometimes simply placed on the floor) plugged together using the Amphenol-type "press and pull" battery terminals, again accessible to just anyone, including children or young people, to open on-load.

These practices are also non-conformant to PAS 63100, and affect systems not installed in lofts too.

Chris Pearson said:

I do not quite understand the 200 m² limit to the scope - the loft space of a larger house is unlikely to be any safer than one of a small house.

No-one said it's safe in an attic in a larger house, just that there are agreed limitations for this Edition of the PAS for other reasons that I explained.

Chris Pearson said:

On a more practical note, does it matter electrically where the battery is sited please? (I had thought that it would make sense to keep all the DC bits together.)

'Electrically' is a strange word to use, because it does matter that overcurrent protection is provided very close to the battery (wherever the battery is sited), and further that we don't have wires floating around outside enclosures that have no overcurrent protection.

Yes, keeping DC together is a great idea, but in practice there are other issues that might take precedence.

It's a fine balance, because unprotected solar PV cables running through premises are also a potential concern.

Definitely an interesting debate.

Things like Napit Codebreakers will also need to be updated to reflect the information in

PAS 63100:2024

as will OnSite Guide maybe. 

Where does this leave previously installed systems. The introduction of this British Standard is clearly going to influence insurers and so existing installtions may have to be updated. Is their guidance on this?

Probably a similar situation to whenever a standard is "improved" over time - e.g. installations with 5s disconnection times on final circuits using BS 3036 fuses, missing 30mA RCD protection to indoor sockets, or even red & black insulation (BS 7671) or having solid metal pins on 13A plugs (BS 1363). The powers that be tend to be pragmatic, especially if the alternative is refusing customer's money (e.g. insurance companies might be more likely to up the premiums a little if an actual problem is perceived rather than refuse cover). Mostly the new version of the standard gets used (after a while) for new installations, but existing ones carry on pretty much as before (if with the occasional C3 on an EICR that gets mostly overlooked).

I do note that a PAS (a Publicly Accessible Specification) isn't quite in the same stable as a true British Standard (like BS 7671) - I suspect it'll more likely be taken notice of by system (and component) manufacturers - and then be used as a selling point. At present at least there's no reference to PAS 63100 in BS 7671 for instance - so it won't directly feed into EICRs (although the conscientious might flag it up - like the lack of a thermal cut-out on immersion heaters).

  - Andy.

There was a public consultation, which was widely publicised including in this Forum: RE: Public Consultation: PAS 63100 Electrical installations – Protection against fire of battery energy storage systems for use in dwellings – Specification 

Also, on LinkedIn and other platforms: www.linkedin.com/.../ghkenyon_public-consultation-pas-63100-electrical-activity-7081315104314531841-5roQ