Scott Seedell said:

Crucially though, it mentions nothing about the total numbers of sockets required, which the OSG provides a table for.

Why is it crucial for BS 7671 to mandate a minimum provision for socket-outlets?

Scott Seedell said:

(clearly not many appliances will fall into this bracket

I think many mains-powered appliances in homes could well be considered to fall under that definition  ("can easily be moved while connected to the supply") along with many in offices and workplaces?

• Table lamp
• Standard lamp
• Television (unless on a  wall bracket ...  I think all of ours at home are on wall brackets that allow movement, except the freestanding TV downstairs mind. With the movable brackets, I guess it depends on how you interpret "from one place to another" as to whether they come under the definition)
• Wall wart charger/power pack
• mixer
• vacuum cleaner
• coffee grinder
• slow cooker
• iron
• hair dryer/curlers etc.
• steam mop
• carpet shampooer
• air fryer
• mixrowave (except built-in)
• power washer
• dekstop computer
• monitor (see note about bracket above)
• guitar amplifier
• extension lead ("equipment" doesn't have to be "current-using")
• shredder
• printer
• etc.

Hence, the statement on the rooms it's likely to apply in in the previous post?

Hi Scott,  according to guidance I have read it's regulation 553.1.7. Which applies. If extension leads are utilised due to insufficient sockets outlets - C3. same but signs of overheating then C2. same apples for multi adapters. So any signs of overheating- C2. 

Can 'easily' be moved whilst connected to the supply - how many people do you know that could easily move a microwave, fridge, washing machine, TV or printer while it's plugged in? Clearly not everything under this bracket falls as 'portable' which I'm surmising is why they changed the definition for it. Clearly many things are designed to be plugged in and left where they are, a socket is still a useful connection for this type of equipment, if it draws less than 13A of course.

Anyway we digress...

gkenyon said:

Why is it crucial for BS 7671 to mandate a minimum provision for socket-outlets?

So we should ignore the table in the OSG because it isn't crucial? As per my original post I'm asking how far we should reasonably be expected to go on an EICR regarding socket outlet numbers. It's a perfectly reasonable question, especially as the OSG has plucked some figures from somewhere and it can't correlate it to any reasonable regulation from BS7671 which mentions minimum numbers of socket outlets. 

I agree that where excessive extension leads are used, it should be recorded and coded appropriately. However, as an example - what if it is an empty room with just a single socket outlet and no extension leads? Are we to deem that as acceptable, despite the OSG giving clear minimum numbers required for each room and local authorities clearly deeming it to be unacceptable? Or do we code it, and how - correlating it to which specific reg in BS7671?

Perhaps either the OSG or BS7671 need to be amended so they actually say the same thing!

Yes I can’t find anything on the initial inspection check list. Do we go back to regulations 132; 134 ?

There are some relevant items on there, though centred more on initial design and verification than an EICR. Perhaps in their wisdom, the IET assume that every electrical installation will have been designed properly in the first place and that minimum numbers of sockets will have been installed originally? It just seems bizarre that the minimum numbers required are so brazenly published in the OSG when there isn't a correlation to BS7671 which can be applied. 

It just seems bizarre that the minimum numbers required are so brazenly published in the OSG when there isn't a correlation to BS7671 which can be applied. 

I'm not so sure it's illogical. BS 7671 gives the fundamental requirements (as many sockets as necessary and in suitable positions) whereas the OSG (like building regs approved documents) gives suggestions on how that might be achieved in some common circumstances given typical usage. BS 7671 can't just say you should always have 'n' sockets in a particular type of room - there are just too many variables from size of room (50m² bedroom in a royal palace vs a 4m² "box room" bedroom never mind how it's actually used. Such tables just give a useful starting point - if that's what might satisfy the requirement in a typical semi, how would I scale that up/down to meet these particular circumstances sort of thing.

Interestingly the US regs seem to take a more prescriptive approach - starting from pretty much the same starting point as us (as many sockets as necessary and in suitable positions), they then interpret that as you should be able to put an appliance with a 6' lead anywhere you like around the perimeter of a room without the lead crossing a doorway - hence a requirement for a socket within 6' of each side of a doorway and not more than 12' between sockets elsewhere. That sort of thing can end up with having to put sockets in awkward places that on-one's ever going to use though.

  - Andy.

Scott Seedell said:

Can 'easily' be moved whilst connected to the supply - how many people do you know that could easily move a microwave, fridge, washing machine, TV or printer while it's plugged in?

I didn't list washing machine or fridge on my list.Those are generally stationary (unless being repaired or moved infrequently for cleaning).

The things that are on my list ... everyone in my house. I accept TV and one or two other things, depends how big in general. Printers aren't all that big. Mine is a business desk one with multiplexer unit, so yes not all that light, but many inkjets and some lasers are very light.

I'm not sure what your point is, or why you believe this Regulation is problematic?

I agree Andy, the OSG is just a guide - some people like the guidance it provides ... seems in this instance it's causing confusion because of periodic inspection & test.

Having said that, most of the information regarding inspection and testing is guidance ... which really is where things need to be so that competent inspectors can make judgements based on the particular circumstances ?

Scott Seedell said:

So we should ignore the table in the OSG because it isn't crucial? As per my original post I'm asking how far we should reasonably be expected to go on an EICR regarding socket outlet numbers.

The OSG is guidance, in this case for designers. I'm not sure how that relates directly to inspection and testing, since older installations might have been installed before we have the plethora of gadgets (e.g. TV and a single general purpose outlet would have been OK even as late as 1970s (and generally, 2 sockets per bedroom and sitting room, one in the hall and landing, and a small number in the kitchen is what many new build semis in the 1970s had).

As to whether it's safe to continue with the original installed numbers is really only dependent on whether there's an apparent safety issue, and is generally a matter for the convenience (or lack of it) for the homeowner. Rented is another question ...