Warning meters in 300,000 homes could stop working

Hi Mike, it’s 1.2%ish of the total number of dwellings. I would be surprised if it was more than the same percentage of that percentage of users who would actually be hit by higher bills, most people with teleswitches just pay a flat rate. Most of Those who rely only on teleswitches to actually control their heating and hot water would surely have been induced to smart meters simply by the cost of not switching?

Hi,

The concern that was raised wasn't of higher bills, but of homes been left without electricity to their heating.  This is is the source report:

https://www.endfuelpoverty.org.uk/looming-crisis-for-households-on-rts-meters/

But as I mentioned above, it's not clear how many households would actually lose heating even if there were 300,000 units unchanged - as you say it's a further percentage of that 1%. But those affected would be very greatly affected (if the roll out isn't completed in time).

Thanks,

Andy

Maybe but I suspect a lot of folk, especially those renting a place short term, have very little idea how anything works - I have had to explain E7 several times to folk that either were too cold or too hot, and the process sometimes leaves me reminded of that "large cow far away", "Small but near"  sketch with father Ted, where you can feel the enthusiasm for explaining something where 'the obvious' is not being grasped slowly draining away.
Some folk probably don't know they have a meter until someone asks for a reading They probably also don't know where the water turns off and expect the plumber to magically know.- we have built a world too hard to understand for some folk.
Mike.

Thanks for your reply AndyM. In my experience I would say that there are very few dwellings these days that rely only an RTS to control their heating and hot water, they do exist but are far and few between. Off peak rates such as E7 have been for a good many years a cash-cow for the electricity suppliers, many consumers think they are getting a good deal by putting their dishwasher or washing machine on over night but don’t realise they are paying a higher price all told.

Nick.

Hi Mike, regarding the last sentence of your reply, hasn’t it  for the at least the last 30 years always been this way?

Any consumer with an RTS system will likely have had a good few letters from their electricity supplier for the last 3 years to upgrade to a smart meter?

Nick.

Its a bit deeper than just Economy 7.  There are a range of switching times on the Teleswitch system including dynamic switching for load control (esp in Scotland).  Some of these can be replicated by Smart Meters but not all.  Some switching arrangements will need updates to customer installations.  In addition IIRC many of these installations are in remote areas and may have signal difficulties with the smart meters so that adds an extra dimension to the problem.  All that said there is really  no excuse for leaving this to the last minute.  Suppliers must take responsibility for their supply arrangements and work with their customers to get decent outcomes.

I dont think that indefinite extension of the teleswitch scheme is possible as the equipment at the transmitter has been obsolete for years and I think is being wetnursed to keep it going.

Peter

Interesting read and one I have had to get involved with as my Mother in Law has a "RTS" Tele switch for what was called white meter heating. So signal each evening supplied electricity to small consumer unit supplying storage heaters thru her flat. The multi flat building she is in does not have and natural gas supply so gas central heating not an option.

Up until January this year "Scottish Power" as her energy provider had not sent any comms on this at all!! Only in January did flyers start arriving by post. I took up the mantle for her, so usual, you cant speak with somebody all online. So first issue was they said RTS didnt exist in her home as she already had smart meters!!

Wrong yes she had two smart meters but one of them controlled by the RTS switch. 23 emails and my photographs before Scottish Power accepted they need to replace RTS Unit and upgrade meters. Now I would like to think Im reasonably electrically competent, my Mother in Law is 82yrs old and majority of her neighbours are the same, so how would they have been able to communicate with Scottish Power and actually persuade them meters need changing??

So appointment booked, I was there waiting on engineer and you guessed it didnt show up, that happened on two occassions, so we are now at beginning of April. Third attempt at appointment of course meter change carried out by subcontractor to Scottish Power "Providor". Their operative calls me from outside the building and asked why on earth did we want smart meters as they are "Rubbish"..................... When I said its only because a RTS system installed he indicated oh aye they will need changed. Operative came in with an "Attitude" he was obviously over worked with bookings and trying to avoid many. He went off on a rant about what are all these *** cables for? where does this and that go? I pointed out what line and neutral supply and load and switching conductors were. Then he asked me what I did and he then replied this install is going to be like an audit for me? 

Too right it was and the Mother in Law now has the RTS unit removed nice new meter installed that has some kind of "Contactor" inside it that now switches on and off at the required times.

Perhaps the reason 300,000 RTS units still need swapping out is the very late notification by the energy companies, nearly impossible online only way of communicating with them and service contractors that fail to turn up and dont really want to do the work.

Sadly reflection on the industry service levels Im afraid.

Cheers GTB 

People with RTS or E7 may have been born in the 1940s like my parents and for some but not ALL, they find it hard to under the concept.  some people born in the 19030 or 40s have mental health issues or physical/mobility issues which adds extra complications.  My dad who recently passed away had MND (Motor Neurons Disease) for 5 years but the final year was very complicated and it meant that me and my brother had to literally move back into the home to become his full time carers. 

I think you're right. The meter registers and customer's load aren't directly switched by the radio signals. Instead, the radio is used to load the meter with a switching regime. When those old valves at the transmitter finally fail, nobody will lose supplies and nobody will get charged at the higher rate for off-peak load, everything just carries on as if it were a dumb economy seven meter. The clever people who designed this system made it resilient

I think this has far more to do with the hack rf box that anyone can buy and reprogram that then turns on and off the rts signal at will rather than the actual reported problem of a lack of valves that’s been muted about for years .