Upstream protection for short circuit current

We are providing some lighting dimmer panels (they also provide hard power and switched power - configurable on a per-channel basis) for a theatre installation.  All the dimmer outputs are 10A single phase circuits and the dimmer has a 3-phase supply.

The electrical consultant has stated that the worst case PFC for a fault at the dimmer outputs is approx 9kA - presumably this is on a bolted phase-phase short..  The dimmers are provided with 6kA breaking capacity Type C 10A MCBs (to EN 60898) with neutral disconnect for their output circuits. The consultant is saying that these must be replaced with 10kA devices.  This of course is not a simple matter as the product is CE/UKCA marked and such a modification would likely require a re-certification by the manufacturer with significant cost and time impacts.  Clearly we can't simply swap the devices over ourselves and the manufacturers are not keen to do it either.

The upstream protective device is a 80A Type D MCB to EN60947-2 (fixed - non adjustable), and has a breaking capacity of 10kA. Looking at the trip time curve for that device once you get to around 800A you hit the 'instantaneous' region.  Likewise for the dimmer MCB once you hit 100A you are in the 'instantaneous' region.

My argument is that if there If there is a fault current of 1kA-6kA, you're likely to be in to a race between the 80A and 10A breakers where you can't predict the winner anyway, and in the worst case of a fault current >6kA and the 10A MCB welds shut the 80A MCB will open within it's fastest possible operation anyway (sub 0.1s).

Also, on a 4mm2 CSA output cable by my calculations once you get to about 8m of cable the worst case fault current is dropped to 6kA anyway.

434.5.1 provides for a higher breaking capacity device upstream to provide protection for a downstream device, although energy let-through needs to be considered.

Is my logic correct or flawed, and is there anything else we would need to do to determine if the configuration decsribed above is compliant?  We know the very high fault current would be an edge-case in terms of likelihood but the electrical consultant is very particular on this project.

NB - We have looked at alternative manufacturers of similar products (there aren't many) and they all use 6kA MCBs.  There is a 'bigger brother' product with higher breaking capacity which won't fit physically and would have a significant cost uplift that I expect will not be feasible.

Thanks in advance.

Jason.

Parents
  • consultant has stated that the worst case PFC for a fault at the dimmer outputs is approx 9kA

    The upstream protective device is a 80A Type D MCB to EN60947-2 (fixed - non adjustable), and has a breaking capacity of 10kA.

    Is the 80A MCB very close to the panel? If not I might suspect the numbers a little...

       - Andy.

Reply
  • consultant has stated that the worst case PFC for a fault at the dimmer outputs is approx 9kA

    The upstream protective device is a 80A Type D MCB to EN60947-2 (fixed - non adjustable), and has a breaking capacity of 10kA.

    Is the 80A MCB very close to the panel? If not I might suspect the numbers a little...

       - Andy.

Children
  • To get 9kA single phase PSSC, its probably also not built like any 10A dimmer rack I've ever seen either ;-)  25 millioms loop impedance is less than 1m  of 1mm2 equivalent (or 10m long of 10mm2 etc) (between the fault and the substation).
    I imagine there is quite a lot of that in the internal wiring of the dimmer alone, before we talk about the on resistance of the semiconductors and the rest of the wiring outside it.

  • I suspect that worst case is a phase-phase short at the dimmer output rather than a single phase fault.  The 'internal resistance' of the dimmer thought had just occurred to me as well and I'll raise this with the manufacturer.  We need very little to get the PSSC down to the 6kA capacity of the outgoing breakers.  This unit can provide hard power as well - I suspect through a switch or a relay so that's likely to be worst case for a short circuit fault.

  • The distribution board with the 80A breaker is in the same room as the dimmers, so it is fairly close.  PSSC at the origin of the installation is 14.4kA measured.  Cabling from the 80A breaker to the dimmer is 25mm2.  Cabling from the intake MDB to the lighting DB is 95mm2 although I'm not sure of the length on that.