The situation is two adjacent DBs which are fed by different distribution circuits. If a final circuit is transferred from one DB to the other, is it a new circuit?
Following on from that, would the work be notifiable? Would you issue an EIC or a MEIWC?
I would use an eic, easiest way to make it clear how the circuit has been moved. That being said i would take a view on how much checking I would do on supply characteristics etc.
Then comes what is probably the crux of the matter I would hesitate but probably also want to bring rcds up to the latest standard.
That being said I replaced my failed washing machine over the weekend with one that includes a variable speed motor drive. I don't think the instructions mention it, but I know it should be on a type A rcd and so far I haven't done the required board swap.
It would be so much clearer if things like this were tied down more rigidly. Would stop people pushing perceived grey areas to the limit, probably make prosecution much simpler and easier.
The problem is that there simply aren't enough dead bodies around to justify a more legal apporach for this. Take AFDDs for example - how would even an expert witness declare with 100% confidence that a AFDD would have saved a life in the event of a fatality when all other protections were present? Similarly, there isn't much empirical evidence that type AC RCDs are actually the villains they are painted to be. The science is never settled because we are moving too quickly to gather enough historical evidence along the way, so the apporach has been more of a what if, rather than a definitive knowledge-based outcome.
Personally, I wouldn't bother with any of the formalities when simply transferring one circuit to a different board. Just do a couple of tests and sanity checks before restoring the supply and call it good.
probably make prosecution much simpler and easier.
And that in my book means it is not desirable at all. We already have folk afraid of their own shadows and imaging electricity to be the most dangerous thing since the invention of the pork pie. It really isn't, and in most cases prosecution does not actually fix the root problem.
Mike
bring rcds up to the latest standard
Type A, all RCBO board is the plan. I appreciate that where money is tight, that may not be possible, but it seems false economy not to make the installation as future-proof as possible.
Personally, I wouldn't bother with any of the formalities when simply transferring one circuit to a different board. Just do a couple of tests and sanity checks before restoring the supply and call it good.
No paperwork? It would seem foolish not to inspect and test the circuit, and record the findings.
Indeed, but if which forms those results get recorded on, and who needs to keep a copy alters the price and pain levels because it is a 'new circuit' and so notifiable, there might be an argument for recording it as some kind of reconfiguration of existing equipment , rather than a totally new installation. (after all a simple replacement of the submain cable would probably be minor.)
But, whatever it gets recorded as, there are some design dragons to avoid, as presumably there were two boards and two sub-mains for a reason, rather than one big one, so some thought about the new load balance and capacity of the sub mains is required, also Zs will change, PSSC will change and maybe VD as well. None of which is especially difficult, but the new conditions should be considered and checked against discrimination with upstream breaker operating times and so on.
Mike.
It may not be a new physical circuit as such but I would think it's prudent to treat it as new and consider things like
Supply DB phase rotation
OCPD characteristics. Maybe the original was wrong or superseded. Eg Type AC was the norm back then but now Type A or B maybe be correct
volt drop and cable calcs. EG 13amp FCU in a domestic airing cupboard
Diversity
Once done test as you would a new circuit
Label up both ends of the circuit
Make changes to other DB schedule to show circuit was moved
At the end of the day, you were the last person to work on that circuit thus you are now responsible for that entire circuit.
you were the last person to work on that circuit thus you are now responsible for that entire circuit.
I thought the principle was you were responsible for your own work (and the consequences of the changes you make) - which isn't quite the same assuming responsibility for every inch of a circuit that for the most part you haven't touched and probably couldn't even access.
- Andy.
I think the idea is your new work should not make things worse than they were before. You cannot reasonably know that all hidden existing cables take routes that you would consider suitable if you had installed it.
Actually in an older building pre the zoned routing rules that came in the 1990s, it probably doesn't ! (14th edition had route things to avoid damage in normal use. Which means different things to different people. 15th edition introduced the 150mm from wall edges and ceilings for concealed wiring. Proper zones and drawings as we know them came with 16th edition and later)
You can however, and probably should, check that the submain Zs or R1+R2 are sensible, and an IR check, so at least you know nothing is broken or shorted.
Reasonable steps only are required to confirm suitability, not superhuman effort.
Mike
you were the last person to work on that circuit thus you are now responsible for that entire circuit.I thought the principle was you were responsible for your own work (and the consequences of the changes you make) - which isn't quite the same assuming responsibility for every inch of a circuit that for the most part you haven't touched and probably couldn't even access.
You cannot reasonably know that all hidden existing cables take routes that you would consider suitable if you had installed it
Gentlemen, thank you for those thoughts - they help me crystallize my own.
There must be some responsibility for ensuring that the circuit is safe to be connected to the supply, just as for a DB change. However, if you did not install it from end-to-end, it can hardly be "new" even if the board supplying it is new (or relatively new).
To be more specific about the situation, the supply to the house has been re-routed. A new DB has been made ready at the end of the new distribution circuit and this has been notified. The remaining work is to move the final circuits a few inches along the wall.
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