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UKSpec 4th Edition

Peter Miller over 4 years ago

The latest edition of UKSpec has been published. Downgrading of IEng competencies as promised.

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0 Roy Pemberton over 4 years ago

Fair comment, Alasdair, regarding your plea. It's why my first post in this thread was deliberately brief (especially for me!) and purely responded to a point about the changes to the I.Eng specification. However, it grew wings and I didn't feel I could leave some of the things said unchallenged.

So, on that basis, this will, hopefully, be my last post on the topic that has grown so big (though frankly, most of us are more or less on the same page), and only does so to respond to some of the things you've raised yourself.

Overall, I agree with you and we're both saying that it's all far more complex than the original assertion suggests.

I particularly want to take up your very interesting point about the impact when you're at the top of the tree in your company when you achieve registration since is no obvious improved position available, as that was precisely my position when I attained I.Eng. In practice, my company did make something of it, including it in a company newsletter and suggesting it was something to celebrate, which was quite enlightened of them, but that hinged very much on the facts that a) in contrast to civil engineers, where C.Eng was almost obligatory to gain recognition, it was not the norm for telecoms engineers to seek/ gain registration at any grade, let alone C.Eng and b) I didn't have a degree, which at that time, the only possible routes to C.Eng were by degree or Mature Candidate route, so I was put forward as a role model for why neither of those things have to prevent registration of some kind. I also received a (very) modest bonus from my appraisal.

However, I think, of more importance to the point, it almost certainly sealed the deal for a move to a larger and more prestigious international consultancy, to be a (slightly) smaller fish in a bigger sea. I didn't get, or seek any increase financially in the move, that wasn't my motivation, it was to be promoted from the second division to the first, and to open up exactly the new avenues for advancement that were lacking in my previous position.

In fairness, I had made (unexpected) advancement within the first company from the time I first applied to having success and this included leading an intense, highly academically based study for one of our clients which provided the vehicle to prepare a technical paper for submission under the mature candidate route to C.Eng , the only alternative to a degree at the time, which remained my only blocker, leading to me upgrading to C.Eng much sooner than I had anticipated.

But most importantly of all, the move to the new company seriously opened up the opportunities so that, within 2 years, I had become regional head of business for the Middle East, led some of the most prestigious infrastructure projects in the world at that time and had virtually doubled my total remuneration package. This was all highly unexpectedly faster than I could have anticipated and the financial improvement was almost an accidental by- product of pursuing what I had a passion for.

The reason I go into such a detailed tale is to illustrate my point that, though the link between registration and improvement in personal reward (whether financial or otherwise) may be more organic than direct, immediate or immediately apparent, I believe it's always available providing you couple it with your drive to self- improve, or just to do things you have a passion for. I certainly don't suggest that advancement or salary increase is an automatic outcome of registration - it's no good sitting back on your laurels, but I remain convinced that, coupled with a desire to meet more and better challenges, it's an inevitable outcome. Of course, Andy's point about it being a great opportunity to see how well rounded you are and take action to improve on that is also a big part of the mix.

It's this complex, organic nature of the beast that I refer to when I say I'm convinced it improves your prospects. Whether you take advantage of those prospects lies entirely in the individual's hands.

Ok, enough of that, onto your point about the survey, firstly I'm sure your right, it's almost certain that the majority of respondents will be thinking only of C.Eng, secondly, I've never been a respondent for this or any similar survey, so I have to wonder how representative it is, I suspect that those who feel disgruntled are more likely to respond than those who are happy, or, frankly, too damned busy drawing on the opportunities I mention regarding improved prospects to respond.

But mostly, on that topic, I'd point out that it's only a survey of people's perception, not of the actual reality, and for all the foregoing reasons, I think the responses almost certainly fail to take into account the holistic, organic nature of the beast that I've described, or simply don't have accurate facts on which to form their judgement and probably allow a sizeable chip on shoulder to influence their perception.

My final response to you (I promise to try not to enter this topic on here again) is re your point that those who are able to demonstrate their suitability for registration to their peers can almost certainly also demonstrate their suitability for promotion/ salary increase to their employers. Firstly, the pursuit of registration is a clear demonstration of commitment to developing their professionalism and therefore a key pointer for an employer in determining that fitness, so, without registration, that component is potentially missing. Timothy Coker mentioned the MOD stance on registration which is a great example of this at play.

This is especially true when your employer needs to promote your worth to potential clients, if your employer needs to demonstrate to somebody like Andy that they have taken all suitable measures to ensure their team had what it takes to deliver safely, sustainably and other similar critical performance criteria, or if you're self employed and have to promote your own worth to a potential client.,

So now my own plea, or suggestion to all is to not focus on the financial return, but on personal attainment, work environment and job satisfaction - look after those and I forecast that financial return will come as a natural side effect.
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0 Roy Pemberton over 4 years ago

Fair comment, Alasdair, regarding your plea. It's why my first post in this thread was deliberately brief (especially for me!) and purely responded to a point about the changes to the I.Eng specification. However, it grew wings and I didn't feel I could leave some of the things said unchallenged.

So, on that basis, this will, hopefully, be my last post on the topic that has grown so big (though frankly, most of us are more or less on the same page), and only does so to respond to some of the things you've raised yourself.

Overall, I agree with you and we're both saying that it's all far more complex than the original assertion suggests.

I particularly want to take up your very interesting point about the impact when you're at the top of the tree in your company when you achieve registration since is no obvious improved position available, as that was precisely my position when I attained I.Eng. In practice, my company did make something of it, including it in a company newsletter and suggesting it was something to celebrate, which was quite enlightened of them, but that hinged very much on the facts that a) in contrast to civil engineers, where C.Eng was almost obligatory to gain recognition, it was not the norm for telecoms engineers to seek/ gain registration at any grade, let alone C.Eng and b) I didn't have a degree, which at that time, the only possible routes to C.Eng were by degree or Mature Candidate route, so I was put forward as a role model for why neither of those things have to prevent registration of some kind. I also received a (very) modest bonus from my appraisal.

However, I think, of more importance to the point, it almost certainly sealed the deal for a move to a larger and more prestigious international consultancy, to be a (slightly) smaller fish in a bigger sea. I didn't get, or seek any increase financially in the move, that wasn't my motivation, it was to be promoted from the second division to the first, and to open up exactly the new avenues for advancement that were lacking in my previous position.

In fairness, I had made (unexpected) advancement within the first company from the time I first applied to having success and this included leading an intense, highly academically based study for one of our clients which provided the vehicle to prepare a technical paper for submission under the mature candidate route to C.Eng , the only alternative to a degree at the time, which remained my only blocker, leading to me upgrading to C.Eng much sooner than I had anticipated.

But most importantly of all, the move to the new company seriously opened up the opportunities so that, within 2 years, I had become regional head of business for the Middle East, led some of the most prestigious infrastructure projects in the world at that time and had virtually doubled my total remuneration package. This was all highly unexpectedly faster than I could have anticipated and the financial improvement was almost an accidental by- product of pursuing what I had a passion for.

The reason I go into such a detailed tale is to illustrate my point that, though the link between registration and improvement in personal reward (whether financial or otherwise) may be more organic than direct, immediate or immediately apparent, I believe it's always available providing you couple it with your drive to self- improve, or just to do things you have a passion for. I certainly don't suggest that advancement or salary increase is an automatic outcome of registration - it's no good sitting back on your laurels, but I remain convinced that, coupled with a desire to meet more and better challenges, it's an inevitable outcome. Of course, Andy's point about it being a great opportunity to see how well rounded you are and take action to improve on that is also a big part of the mix.

It's this complex, organic nature of the beast that I refer to when I say I'm convinced it improves your prospects. Whether you take advantage of those prospects lies entirely in the individual's hands.

Ok, enough of that, onto your point about the survey, firstly I'm sure your right, it's almost certain that the majority of respondents will be thinking only of C.Eng, secondly, I've never been a respondent for this or any similar survey, so I have to wonder how representative it is, I suspect that those who feel disgruntled are more likely to respond than those who are happy, or, frankly, too damned busy drawing on the opportunities I mention regarding improved prospects to respond.

But mostly, on that topic, I'd point out that it's only a survey of people's perception, not of the actual reality, and for all the foregoing reasons, I think the responses almost certainly fail to take into account the holistic, organic nature of the beast that I've described, or simply don't have accurate facts on which to form their judgement and probably allow a sizeable chip on shoulder to influence their perception.

My final response to you (I promise to try not to enter this topic on here again) is re your point that those who are able to demonstrate their suitability for registration to their peers can almost certainly also demonstrate their suitability for promotion/ salary increase to their employers. Firstly, the pursuit of registration is a clear demonstration of commitment to developing their professionalism and therefore a key pointer for an employer in determining that fitness, so, without registration, that component is potentially missing. Timothy Coker mentioned the MOD stance on registration which is a great example of this at play.

This is especially true when your employer needs to promote your worth to potential clients, if your employer needs to demonstrate to somebody like Andy that they have taken all suitable measures to ensure their team had what it takes to deliver safely, sustainably and other similar critical performance criteria, or if you're self employed and have to promote your own worth to a potential client.,

So now my own plea, or suggestion to all is to not focus on the financial return, but on personal attainment, work environment and job satisfaction - look after those and I forecast that financial return will come as a natural side effect.
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