To Uni or not To Uni. Eagre for more insight and thoughts in the pros and cons of going to Universtiy for Electrical and Electronic Engineering Degree at 30+.

I am an Apprentice trained Engineering Technician and have been working in manufacturing for 10 years. Starting in an Apprenticeship role building CNC machine tools and then leaving to work in commissioning role for a smaller business working in integrated bespoke machinary. After some nasty health issues I had to stop the travel that came with commissioning systems and started my path into Controls Engineering; doing my HNC and now working on designing, building and testing control panels and PLC applications/development that sort of thing. 

Now, that will keep me busy for the rest of my career should I choose too stick at it!

I have developed however, very ichy feet towards academic study and further learning. The debate I am having is whether to commit a good section of my life to going to complete an Electrical Engineering Degree or higher education in Automation and Controls. 

Aims? To both grasp and get exposure to new topics, other Engineers and best practices in design and applications, to increase my long term employment prospects and probably because I want to complete what I'd set my mind too a long while ago which was to have a degree in the tool belt. 

There are other things that the degree may assist with such as working abroad and eventually teaching, both are goals which I'd love to achieve.

My question is to those who have gone down a similar path or who have insight on the topic... is it worth the time and expenditure, (it is so expensive). Is there a widening disconnect between industry and academia when it comes to Engineering? I have to say I am not often around graduate engineers in my area.

It is such a hot topic, I know. Also, to add I am currently 29 and will be 30 at least before starting on this path. Too old? (That is not my thought, but I might be wrong). 

All thoughts welcome and have a lovely evening wherever you are!! 

  • Do look at modern degree apprenticeships. a good combination of work based learning and academic study and often at a much reduced cost. 

  • I would say 'do it' Jack Blush.  You're never too old to learn.

    They say 'you can't teach an old dog new tricks' but I think that depends entirely on the dog and it's willingness to learn. I'm well into my 50's now and even just since my 50th Birthday I've learnt so much including teaching myself how to swim! 

    So I'd say, never stop learning or wanting to learn no matter how old you are. Do it Jack, do it! Joy

  • I'd say it's all about attitude and the reason you are doing it. The people I've known who've taken degrees late in life (including myself, I did my Master's when I was 50) because they were interested in the subject have been really glad they did so. Those who did it just because they thought it would be a ticket to a better job have been disappointed. 

    It reads as if you have more of the former attitude, in which case absolutely I'd agree with Lisa, go for it! But I would suggest finding a degree programme aimed at mature students (e.g. Open University?) otherwise you may find..to put it politely...that the approach that your fellow undergraduates take to their degrees rather frustrating. When I worked for a manufacturing company we used to regularly sponsor our apprentices through degrees if they were interested, they usually absolutely sailed through, and the University we partnered through always commented how much harder they worked than the students straight from school. Incidentally they very often were around 30 by the time they did their degree. NO age is too late as people regularly prove

    It's worth seeing if you can find any Universities that will let you do it in two years, i.e. that will take your existing qualifications in lieu of the first year. There used to be but I've now idea if there are now. However, just be prepared that if you do do that you will need to spend a lot of time catching up on the maths. But it is possible, again that's what our apprentices used to do. Alternatively you may find some that will condense the course to two years by taking out the long breaks, or, the other way around, allow you to take modules spread over time (again, the Open University approach) so you can work in between modules.

    Good luck!

    Andy

  • I would thoroughly recommend the Open University. The oldest fellow student whom I met was aged 94.

  • Former Community Member
    Former Community Member

    I'd also highly recommend the Open University as others have already suggested. Just had my degree ceremony for my MSc in Computing from the OU last week coincidently, which I did over 6 years whilst working full time to give plenty of gaps in between modules. Although I did it primarily because I was interested, it did help me get another job and I'm now looking into starting a part-time PhD! As Andy suggested, the OU let you spread out the modules which is what I did, and you can start with one module, see how it goes and then take another one and another if you enjoy it, and I found I got a lot more out of it being able to relate what I was studying to my day job. I believe the OU do also provide flexibility in accepting existing qualifications in lieu of part of the study, but you'd have to contact them to find out the specifics. Could you ask your employer if they'd fund the tuition fees towards it?

  • Hi Jack, only just seen this but my 2p:-

    Education is never wasted, especially in a formal setting. It can give you other ways of looking at things that can then help you at work. Some industries will be more focussed on the paper certificate than others, so particular courses will maybe have more value.

    I went back to school in 1995 aged 33/34 to do an HNC part time, in computer studies. Hardest 2 years ever (juggling full time work, young family + all the study) but glad I did it. Immense respect for anyone else doing/done that!

    Later still I went back to do some modules on a business degree course (not the full course). As Andy says it was interesting seeing the different attitudes of different age groups, and this time I was the oldest by a country mile. It was easier, I learnt a lot, but didn't enjoy it as much as I found the subjects pretty boring. Again as Andy says, definitely study what you are interested in.

    p.s. still don't have a degree!

  • I would caution against going with the OU given your stated interests. The curriculum is light on electrical engineering as, probably for economic reasons, all disciplines share core modules at stage 2. 

    While the module materials are general high quality and care has been taken in drafting assessments, the selection and weighting of topics is a bit haphazard. At level 2, the math methods module can't be taken alongside a mechanical or electrical subject, while there is a compulsory full 30 credits of fluff on professional practice! As an accrediting body, the IET should really enforce a bit more discipline IMO.

    First choice would be a local university that offers a rigorous EE curriculum part time although securing time off work may be challenging. I don't think there's any courses run at evenings and weekends. 

  • My experience was that very few universities will give full RPL for a completed HNC, even though the HNC curriculum does map quite closely to what's covered in the first year, at least at lower ranked institutions.

  • As a comparison for you, I did a part time BEng degree at Southampton, it took six years! Whilst working full time, but eventually got one day off work per week term time for attending uni. An HNC might chop off the first two years if you were continue on to degree level, depending upon the entry requirements of the university. If so then why not just crack on! For me it was a fun but hard six years and it did take its toll on life outside of work. That's worth thinking about. For you, would a degree be the best way of getting you that best practice in design and application that have said you want? Or more theory and understanding, plus the academic credentials? On my course, my fellow part-timers were of all ages so for you studying in your thirties may I suggest can only be a good investment for your several decades of career ahead of you.

  • Hi Jack,

    I'm similar to others on this thread, did my degree part time and I was a lucky one that could do day release over 4 years with an HNC behind me in the good old days when part time degrees were in the hundreds of pounds per year not the thousands they are now!

    Funnily enough, I have been doing some research on degree content (Level 7 / MSc) in this area, as I think in the UK we are lacking in terms of breath in the currently available courses that sufficiently cover automation / OT / C&I / I&C which are now deemed as I have read from certain employers as a critical competency / trade !

    Don't get me wrong I think in terms of competency building completing an E&E BEng(Hons) degree is the right thing to do but you will need to top it up for sure.

    Check this out from the states https://www.careeronestop.org/competencymodel/competency-models/automation.aspx

    When you look at Tier 5 I believe our degrees lack that breath. You only need to look at Senior C&I Engineering jobs and the current degrees don't go into enough detail on 5.4 to 5.6. Also note 5.7 being Ind 4.0 will start to become popular as MES/ERM integration is driven harder and harder and some degrees might do a bit in this space although using virtual instruments is a bit of a stretch in my opinion.

    To truly get the competency that most industry needs I think you will need either short courses from ISA or EIT to supplement any degree to ensure you have the required skill set. Also with the tie up between machinery safety / functional safety and cyber security (5.5 to 5.6) these competencies are going to be minimum standard whether it be product engineering or systems engineering.  

    This is the frustrating thing when it comes to apprenticeships as mentioned, where there is a clear employer demand. With all the trailblazer groups, the IfATE quango at the helm and all these others involved in technical education to ensure L&D delivers for employers, the only viable degree apprenticeship as you are considering Level 6/7 that "sort of matched" the automation competency model was known as PA7 https://www.gambica.org.uk/static/uploaded/5c245446-3874-4933-9c9453628417f388.pdf . 

    This has completely failed with not a single entrant onto the apprenticeship because it was never marketed correctly, was too complex to deliver and still in opinion had those gaps I identified above. So all that levy money has gone up in a puff of smoke! this is money you could have used if the apprenticeship standard delivered for what you needed without you putting your hand in your pocket working with your employer.

    On a slightly brighter side, there is another Level 6 standard CTSE https://www.instituteforapprenticeships.org/apprenticeship-standards/control-technical-support-engineer-v1-0 but again I think this will fall foul of the same issue with PA7, plus it again has larger gaps than PA7 did compared to the Automation Competency model.

    So with all that my advice would be:

    Complete an E&E BEng Honours - make sure its on here https://www.engc.org.uk/education-skills/course-search/accredited-course-search/ although for Chartered eventually you will need further learning. Clearly you need part time and something like this would fit, I  imagine https://www.mmu.ac.uk/study/undergraduate/course/beng-electrical-and-electronic-engineering "this was the one I did"

    Look at the professional certificate courses at EIT to supplement   https://www.eit.edu.au/?post_type=courses&s=&study-areas[]=industrial-automation-instrumentation-and-process-control

    & also look at ISA CAP and their certificate programmes https://www.isa.org/certification/cap & https://www.isa.org/certification/certificate-programs

    Then to wrap it all up use something like Career Manager to manage you IPD and CPD using the automation competency model as your goals with activities either from the degree modules or the top up self paced courses I identified. By doing this you will ensure you get real value from the learning as opposed to ticking boxes making you a really strong automation professional.

    Lastly this is going to be an investment, it wont be cheap both in time and money but that should make you more determined to do the best you possibly can to get the pay back from that investment.

    Best of Luck

    Lee