Information on University courses.

Hi, 

Firstly, I'd totally agree with Andy's post, but that said there are a lot of jobs which don't necessarily need a degree but where the HR team will reject CVs without a degree just to get the number of applicants down to a reasonable number. So yes, you are improving your chances. But also, you will only do well at a degree if you enjoy doing it, so I really like your comment "Mostly for my own love of Engineering" - that's the best reason to do a degree.

There's advantages and disadvantages to both routes you suggest.

"HND + top up" is lowest risk, I suspect with your experience you should sail through the HND part, and whatever happens next you've got a qualification. But don't underestimate how much top-up is needed. HNDs and degrees are actually quite different qualifications, HND is basically vocational "do it like this" (with a bit of "for these reasons"). Degrees are aiming to prepare you to do something no-one has done before, which of course is the fun bit of engineering, but this means they are not covering the same ground as HNDs. They are not training you to do what has been done in the past, but giving you the theory for the future. So basically, when engineers top up from HNC to degrees they find they have to go back and learn (or re-learn) a lot of their maths. So it's not really the case (as is sometimes said) that an HND covers the first year of a degree, it often doesn't cover much of the maths in particular. So it's a good route, but you do need to make sure you've got a good support group around you to help with some of that catch up study - hopefully the university / college would supply that, but you need to make sure that they do actually put groups of students through courses together, so that those groups can support each other (like the Open University does), and don't just send you a load of course materials.

Straight through a degree is the other way around, you need to be confident that you can sustain the course right the way through in order to achieve something useful, but they will make sure, starting from day one, that everything you do is towards that end goal. You will still have challenges (it's a learning experience, not a training course), so the same comments apply regarding making sure that the provider makes sure there is a support group in place.

Personally I would recommend doing your Batchelor's, whichever way you do it, through one of the established UK Universities (I include the Open University in this), because if they offer remote courses they are more likely to be set up to support students on those courses. Ideally I'd suggest trying to find somewhere that includes something like summer schools or weekend seminars as part of the course, partly because they are really helpful to allow you to meet other students face-to-face (and find that you're all having the same problems, which is always encouraging!), and partly because if they provide that it gives you more confidence that they are looking after you. And also remember that recruiters can get concerned about degrees from institutions where they don't recognise the name. I'd also suggest looking at the size of the UK based academic staff for whichever degree awarding institute you use...if it's very small you do have to wonder whether they are actually going to give you an education or whether they are just going to send you a load of pre-printed materials to read. 

If you are really lucky you may find that a local FE college offers degrees accredited by a University - that's how I got my Master's, I did it through Cornwall College but the degree was awarded by Coventry University. But that's just luck what your local colleges offer.

Wishing you the best of luck with whichever route you do, and remember the main thing to do is enjoy it - even if it does have some painful late nights in the process!

Thanks,

Andy

One further thought - any reputable University will be happy to talk to you about how your personal study will work given your restrictions. If you cannot get a real human conversation with a real academic who listens to you, and takes time to explain the course, then run. To some extent it's a buyer's market at the moment, most universities are desperate to attract good students. 

You may pick up from all this my personal questions about the Engineering College of Technology, based solely on their website, but I have no direct experience of this Australian based company. However, what I've mentioned are the things I'd be advising people to ask all degree providers before placing their cash and careers in their hands. (I do have to wonder what else would a college of technology be other than an engineering college?)

Thanks,

Andy

Matthew Griffiths said:

It is unlikely that my company will be able to give me day release to do it part time so it would have to be remote.

One further thought on this point came to me over lunch...

It's worth negotiating on this. Yes, it is really hard for employers to give day release, because they planned to have you available 5 days a week and now you'll only be available for 4, so it can be difficult / impossible (depending on your role) for them to cover that time - field service is a good example of a role where this is a problem.

However, if they are a sensible employer they will appreciate the development potential of you becoming more qualified - you can become a more valuable asset to them. So if you find a course that requires occasional days off, e.g. Fridays or Mondays for weekend seminars / tutorials, you may find they are happy to support it. Sometimes the deal is that you take half the time from leave (or working extra hours on your working days) and the company gives you the other half of the time: a fair deal since your course is 50:50 benefit to you and to your employer.

And equally do not be afraid to ask for a financial contribution from the company. They may say no, but you're no worse off if they do. You will probably find if they do that you need to pay a proportion back if you leave the company within a number of years, which again is fair enough. (Typically, from memory, something like 80% if you resign within one year, 40% if you leave within two years etc. Although they may or may not hold you to it depending whether you leave on good terms or not.) 

As long as you don't expect the answer "yes", and particularly if you show you're prepared to put in your share and to make sure it doesn't affect your current role, you'll never do yourself any harm by asking - and you can do yourself a great deal of good by getting yourself on the radar as someone who is interested in moving upwards.

And if you get a complete "no" you've learned something valuable about your employer...

Andy thank you very much for all the information and advice. You have given me a lot to think about and see if I can get some more information from place.

As for the issues with my company they are looking into budgeting to help me with some of th funding, but the time off thing maybe a none started for them but I will make the suggestion you have given me and see what they say.

Thank you so very much.

No problem at all, sorry it was a bit of a "brain dump" as things came into my head during coffee break and lunch. I ran an engineering team for many years where we helped a lot of our staff through all these various routes, depending on what suited them, and actually it didn't matter much which way they went, they all got something out of it - and so did we as a company.

As I was discussing with a friend yesterday, loads of people actually do much better coming to degree level education a bit later in their careers, they really know what they want out of it, and get less distracted by...those things we get distracted by in our late teens and early twenties! We had several apprentices who joined us at 16 who "hated book learning", who later on sailed through their degrees because they'd worked out by then what they wanted to learn. 

Cheers,

Andy

No problem at all, sorry it was a bit of a "brain dump" as things came into my head during coffee break and lunch. I ran an engineering team for many years where we helped a lot of our staff through all these various routes, depending on what suited them, and actually it didn't matter much which way they went, they all got something out of it - and so did we as a company.

As I was discussing with a friend yesterday, loads of people actually do much better coming to degree level education a bit later in their careers, they really know what they want out of it, and get less distracted by...those things we get distracted by in our late teens and early twenties! We had several apprentices who joined us at 16 who "hated book learning", who later on sailed through their degrees because they'd worked out by then what they wanted to learn. 

Cheers,

Andy