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ARE CENG AND IENG EQUAL IN STATUS

Nouman Abid Chuhan
Can we say that the CEng and IEng be considered equal titles in professional status or IEng is inferior than CEng.

As the Application Form for both CEng and IEng is same.
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  • Former Community Member
    0 Former Community Member in reply to Sparkingchip

    Peter Miller:

    Another difference is that IEng is a grade that is in terminal decline and unlikely to be around in 10 years time.



    Peter
    I Eng, is it important ?
    IEng is a grade that is in terminal decline and unlikely to be around in 10 years time.
    You are probably right. What a waste of talent, here is some background on I Eng  for those new to this PEI.

    Has IET lost interest in I Eng, has the ECUK lost interest in I Eng ?

    Engineering Council Registration - Incorporated Engineer (IEng)
    Incorporated Engineers maintain and manage applications of current and developing technology, and may undertake engineering design, development, manufacture, construction and operation.

     
    IEng registrants are also variously engaged in technical and commercial management and possess effective interpersonal skills.

     
    IEng registration shows your employer and peers that you have demonstrated a commitment to professional standards, and to developing and enhancing your competence.

     
    The benefits of Professional registration as an Incorporated Engineer (IEng) include:

    • With the letters IEng after your name you have recognition of your proven competence, commitment, skills and experience.

    • Improved career prospects

    • Greater influence within your organisation and industry

    • Access to life-long learning.

    Being part of a network of professional engineers.

    JG : an I Eng is less competent than a C Eng in advanced IT mathematical calculations and final report writing.
    A C Eng does not have a complete engineering formation. They are complementary.

    IET
    “Many excellent professionals enjoy highly successful engineering and engineering management careers without being able to fully demonstrate the CEng standard”. Ref R Bowdler.
    JG : That is because IET cannot attract up and coming engineers that have not had the chance to go to university. The typical I Eng today is a contract worker that has great difficulty finding fixed term contracts, he does not have the means to idle at the fac. He has to do 6 years distance studies after a full day’s work & transport to make I Eng grade, (universities only give 1 semester credit for HNC  which is really worth 4years distance studies!)
    To make C Eng registration another 4 years master distance studies are necessary, unless a PEI and a university assessor accord a written monologue for M Eng equivalent.
    R Bowdler “With the right experience, you may not need to gain fully exemplifying  academic qualifications,

     
    JG This is a fact, however many companies refuse to pay these successful professional engineers a C Eng salary.

    I Eng is not a restriction to success. It is a restriction to financial reward.
    Such is the UK, PEI club status a brick a brack of 40  or more PEIs and other learned societies who do not see eye to eye.
    A modern day Free Masonry based on subjective approval by people who often do not themselves meet UK Spec, and requiring sponsorship and references; when elsewhere, a CV with CPD, work certificates and academic diplomas is all that is necessary to be recruited.
    Of course, if you publish a technical document, a PhD, Doctor Eng, or C Eng, will give weight to your analysis.

    • In my case an ASME « U Stamp» is worth a thousand C Eng.

    I do not need C Eng to do the work I carried out in France. BSc, I Eng and successful projects were enough.

    BACK DOOR ENTRIES
    I did not apply for C Eng, IET because the UK R&D centre that I applied to, refused to accept IET C Eng, they only wanted I Eng I Mech E. After an interview with their Chief Engineer; BSc, C Eng Fellow IMechE, (No Master) he realised that IET was a multi discipline PEI, he marched all his non registered PEs through the IET back door with a short circuit, mass recruitment and his CEO was made Honorary Fellow IET.

    IET attitude towards I Eng
    C Eng IET look down on IEng!
    IIE (ITEME/IMechIE/ IIE and other PEI) amalgamated with IEE which had incorporated many other PEI – IET no longer represents the I Eng as an equal professional engineer – references:
    I have contacted IET thrice, these are the replies I received:

    • IIE the institute we have taken over!

    • What is I Eng; never heard of it - Switch board operator at IET HQ

    • (IET) is referred to by its employees as the company.


     
    JG: It is evident that IET is returning to an IEE C Eng dominated PEI, even though UK C Engs are not the majority members, they are the dominant members.
    There are two main cases for C Eng registration via I Eng; the first are younger members progressing in the disciplines who have been to university. The second are older I Eng who are applying for C Eng via the mature candidate route.

    • I Eng will not interest the younger members that have a BSc as their BSc with MIET is sufficient to gain an engineering post if C Eng applied for is put on the CV.

    • I Eng is still a good opportunity for a HNC apprentice trained PE.

    • BSc Fellow IET is an equivalent in the UK for a senior engineering post. It is not acceptable for Eur Ing or senior posts abroad.


     
    Yes, I Eng is a typical UK absurdity, it needs to be sorted out or dropped. A basic engineering grade is needed. C Eng needs to be re-evaluated, most C Eng are not innovative mathematically bent engineers.

     
    I am proud of my RAE apprenticeship leading to I Eng, this permitted me to study on a Mastère course in nuclear physics in French, before taking alternative studies by a BA in maths & materials!
    I have had many C Eng working for me; all my French ingénieurs had a master at least, many were PhD. I was respected by all.
    I have led engineering research projects with participants on my projects at Professor, PhD, C Eng status. I have been consulted by 5 Nobel laureates, Directors of the leading R&D centres worldwide and by Nuclear Engineering companies. I have been general manager of a leading Special Techniques company and led novel energy projects worldwide.  I “Surveilled” the latest EPR project.
    UK companies such as RR or UKAEA use my development work or engineering assessments but refuse to accept my application for an engineering post as I do not fit into the C Eng box ticking procedure. I had C Eng (not IET) refused on five occasions – hard luck on them.

    All that an engineer needs is :

    • a plastic card authorising him to be responsible to engineer

    • a PEI that represents his interests and keeps him informed of events and progress in this multi disciplinary activity called Engineering & Technology.

    Progress has to be made; we are in the 21st century.
    I Eng RIP

    PS
    IET History
    The Institution of Incorporated Engineers (IIE) was a multidisciplinary engineering institution in the United Kingdom. In 2006 it merged with the Institution of Electrical Engineers (IEE) to form the Institution of Engineering and Technology (IET). Before the merger the IIE had approximately 40,000 members. The IET is now the second largest engineering society in the world next to the IEEE. The IET has the authority to establish professional registration of engineers (Chartered Engineer or Incorporated Engineer) through the Engineering Council.
    The IEEE does not have the authority to replicate the registration process in its complementary environment.

    The IIE traces its heritage to the

    • I884 Vulcanic Society that was founded in 1884. The Vulcanic Society was formed[1] by a group of apprentices from the works of Maudslay, Son & Field Ltd, in Lambeth, London. This society went through 3 name changes before it became the

    • 1902  Junior Institution of Engineers in 1902, which became the

    • 1970    Institution of General Technician Engineers in 1970 and the

    • 1976  Institute of Mechanical and General Technician Engineers (IMGTechE) in 1976.

    • In 1982 the IMGTechE and Institution of Technician Engineers in Mechanical Engineering (ITEME) merged to form the Institution of Mechanical Incorporated Engineers (IMechIE).

    • 1990   The Institution of Electrical and Electronic Incorporated Engineers (IEEIE) and the Society of Electronic and Radio Technicians (SERT) merged in 1990 to form the Institution of Electronics and Electrical Incorporated Engineers (IEEIE).

    • 1998  The IIE was formed in April 1998 by the merger of the IMechIE, the IEEIE and The Institute of Engineers and Technicians (IET). In 1999 The Institution of Incorporated Executive Engineers (IIExE) merged with the IIE.

    • 2001   In October 2001, IIE received a Royal Charter in recognition of the significant contribution of its members to the UK economy and society.

    • In 2005 The Society of Engineers also merged with the IIE.


    Electrical side ref R Bowdler ( Can anyone add to this)

    • The IEETE became the IEEIE

    • TE and became a member of the IE 

    • IE moved across to the ASEE,

    • which merged into the IIExE,

    • which merged into the IIE,

    • which merged into the IET.

    • the IEEIE/ IMechIE approved scheme led to the smooth M&E merger.


     
    Following members voting in favour of the merger, the IET became operational on 31 March 2006.
    Engineering Council

     
    More and more institutions encourage senior Incorporated Engineers to seek Fellow registration, while I Eng representation on boards and committees is becoming commonplace.

     

     
    UK Status
    C Eng & I Eng wants status recognition to sign passports or assist younger people with administrative references only.

     
    Deontology
    PEIs, IET included have rules of ethics. I Eng and C Eng are registered each year at ECUK which accords the use of the respective titles.
    I Eng and C Eng are the first foot on the ladder of practicing professional engineers.
    If one is no longer employed or in search of a post as a practicing professional engineer, then that person has no right to the nominatives I Eng and C Eng. They should inform IET /ECUK of their situation.
    IET should make a register of non practicing engineers with a quick return procedure for when they practice engineering at their previous status again.

    • We should abide by the ethics we impose on others.


     
    Retiring PEI Member status
    C Eng & I Eng are active engineering titles : Retired MIET have no right to a professional title. 

    • IET or other PEI has no provision for retired members


     
    I am retiring why should I pay for a title I am not allowed to use.
    I have resigned from ECUK, I count on retired members to respect the IET rules of ethics and resign from ECUK.

     
    Just be proud members IET.

     
    J Gowman MIET
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