ARE CENG AND IENG EQUAL IN STATUS

Daniel


I really like your simplicity, directness and preciseness.  Yes, that is why i am trying to convey again and again that we should be precise on the ECUK Titles with respect to the relevant professions.  But participants are going again and again into the comparisons and discussing more other countries.  Up to some extent, these comparisons are required but first we need to discuss fully the ECUK titles and their professional status.


In a Technology Team, there are generally five Team members defined as Scientist, Engineer, Technologist, Technician and Craftsman.  So these are equally recognized as professionals.  (Reference:  The Book:  Engineering Design Second Edition By George E.Dieter).  Primarily, each one have his/her own specified tasks/functions/job responsibilities, which distinguish them with each other.  Obviously some functions are overlapping.


When we compare these professionals with respect to the academic level of studies, obviously Scientist, Engineer and Technologist are at higher levels than the Technician.  Likewise, Technician is at higher level than the Craftsman.  Now lets see about the Scientist, Engineer and Technologist.  All three kind of professionals have their own specifically designed Degrees from Bachelor upto PhD.  Therefore, no one can be said as junior/inferior in comparison to other as far as professional status, pay scale and other benefits are concerned.


Titles should be given according to type of professionals but not according to the level of Academic Studies, for Scientist, Engineer and Technologist.  Whilst the ECUK has defined the title IEng for Engineer and Technologist having Bachelors Degree and the title CEng for Engineer and Technologist having Masters Degree, which is not appropriate.  When ECUK takes its entitled professionals to International Engineering Alliance (IEA), IEngs are entitled as "International Engineering Technologists" and CEngs are entitled as "International Professional Engineers".  Moreover, it is being said that IEngs are not equal to the CEngs because IEngs have less knowledge than CEngs.  Personally, it mixes up the definition of professionals and deteriorates their professional equivalence.


I suggest that three streams of professionals i.e. Scientists, Engineers and Technologists, may be well defined and relevant equivalent titles may also be well defined.


If, in UK, Technologists have consesus that they also be entitled as Engineer, then UK  is helpless internationally through the IEA where the Technologist is called the Technologist and Engineer is called the Engineer.  Therefore, UK or ECUK should align their professionals according to international standard and should give respect to each pofessional at equal level but in their own field.


Moshe and Georgios


The point that titles are legally protected in the relevant Engineering Councils but not protected in the Society.  I agree.  Let me give you the example of my country Pakistan.  Here are separate councils for Engineers and Technologists.  For Engineers, Pakistan Engineering Council (PEC) and for Technologists, National Technology Council (NTC).  PEC takes Engineers to Washington Accord and NTC is taking Technologists to Sydney Accord.  Before establishment of the NTC, Engineers are making theirselves superior than Technologists but now after NTC, both are being treated at par both in employment and education.  Anyways, the title Engineer is legally protected by the PEC but in our society, anyone uses this title of Engineer by his/her own.  PEC publishes Legal Notices in the National Newspapers time to time that the title Engineer is the property of the PEC and can only be used by those who are registered with the PEC, otherwise strict action may be taken.  PEC has succeeded upto some extent i.e. the title Engineer is now protected in Govt. Departments but still failed to imply fully on the society.  The Society or layman calls every Technical worker as Engineer .  Likewise, Pakistan Medical and Dental Council (PMDC) has also legally protected the title Doctor but Society calls every Dispenser or Radiographer as Doctor.  It is very hard to implement fully in any country of the world because layman is not interested in such kind of technicalities, they need solutions only.  Whoever provides them the solution, the society will award them the title by their own as Engineer or Doctor.



Now back to our main topic i.e. Are CEng and IEng equal in Status,  please give your replies in the light of my above reply please.  Thank you.


By the way, i am really enjoying this interesting discussion .

  

Daniel


I really like your simplicity, directness and preciseness.  Yes, that is why i am trying to convey again and again that we should be precise on the ECUK Titles with respect to the relevant professions.  But participants are going again and again into the comparisons and discussing more other countries.  Up to some extent, these comparisons are required but first we need to discuss fully the ECUK titles and their professional status.


In a Technology Team, there are generally five Team members defined as Scientist, Engineer, Technologist, Technician and Craftsman.  So these are equally recognized as professionals.  (Reference:  The Book:  Engineering Design Second Edition By George E.Dieter).  Primarily, each one have his/her own specified tasks/functions/job responsibilities, which distinguish them with each other.  Obviously some functions are overlapping.


When we compare these professionals with respect to the academic level of studies, obviously Scientist, Engineer and Technologist are at higher levels than the Technician.  Likewise, Technician is at higher level than the Craftsman.  Now lets see about the Scientist, Engineer and Technologist.  All three kind of professionals have their own specifically designed Degrees from Bachelor upto PhD.  Therefore, no one can be said as junior/inferior in comparison to other as far as professional status, pay scale and other benefits are concerned.


Titles should be given according to type of professionals but not according to the level of Academic Studies, for Scientist, Engineer and Technologist.  Whilst the ECUK has defined the title IEng for Engineer and Technologist having Bachelors Degree and the title CEng for Engineer and Technologist having Masters Degree, which is not appropriate.  When ECUK takes its entitled professionals to International Engineering Alliance (IEA), IEngs are entitled as "International Engineering Technologists" and CEngs are entitled as "International Professional Engineers".  Moreover, it is being said that IEngs are not equal to the CEngs because IEngs have less knowledge than CEngs.  Personally, it mixes up the definition of professionals and deteriorates their professional equivalence.


I suggest that three streams of professionals i.e. Scientists, Engineers and Technologists, may be well defined and relevant equivalent titles may also be well defined.


If, in UK, Technologists have consesus that they also be entitled as Engineer, then UK  is helpless internationally through the IEA where the Technologist is called the Technologist and Engineer is called the Engineer.  Therefore, UK or ECUK should align their professionals according to international standard and should give respect to each pofessional at equal level but in their own field.


Moshe and Georgios


The point that titles are legally protected in the relevant Engineering Councils but not protected in the Society.  I agree.  Let me give you the example of my country Pakistan.  Here are separate councils for Engineers and Technologists.  For Engineers, Pakistan Engineering Council (PEC) and for Technologists, National Technology Council (NTC).  PEC takes Engineers to Washington Accord and NTC is taking Technologists to Sydney Accord.  Before establishment of the NTC, Engineers are making theirselves superior than Technologists but now after NTC, both are being treated at par both in employment and education.  Anyways, the title Engineer is legally protected by the PEC but in our society, anyone uses this title of Engineer by his/her own.  PEC publishes Legal Notices in the National Newspapers time to time that the title Engineer is the property of the PEC and can only be used by those who are registered with the PEC, otherwise strict action may be taken.  PEC has succeeded upto some extent i.e. the title Engineer is now protected in Govt. Departments but still failed to imply fully on the society.  The Society or layman calls every Technical worker as Engineer .  Likewise, Pakistan Medical and Dental Council (PMDC) has also legally protected the title Doctor but Society calls every Dispenser or Radiographer as Doctor.  It is very hard to implement fully in any country of the world because layman is not interested in such kind of technicalities, they need solutions only.  Whoever provides them the solution, the society will award them the title by their own as Engineer or Doctor.



Now back to our main topic i.e. Are CEng and IEng equal in Status,  please give your replies in the light of my above reply please.  Thank you.


By the way, i am really enjoying this interesting discussion .