Your post is well-reasoned and with Moshe also adding his experience, any reader of this thread , should be better positioned to understand the different options and their context. A significant theme here is mobility and migration especially in a North American context, this is something that I have limited understanding of, for example the use of a credential evaluator. The IET uses NARIC to compare qualifications and validate overseas awarding institutions, in addition to The Washington Accord, FEANI et al where mutual recognition of qualifications is agreed by treaty. It seems that the Professional Recognition Awards (“Senior Awards” to 2013) have value to credential evaluators, but comments here that suggest that City & Guilds themselves have lacked enthusiasm for them in recent times. To pick up on Andy’s theme, without the explanation “degree level” most employers are just not really aware of MGCI and if they are would assume that it was a management award, similar to CMI. Unless anyone knows differently, it seems that engineering content disappeared with the change from “Senior Awards” to “Professional Recognition Awards”? It also seems that in the period before this change some (or even most?) MCGI awards were based on the person already being CEng registered and paying a fee without any further assessment. I would therefore hesitate to recommend these awards, except to those seeking a competency based management qualification, who should carefully consider the range of options available before deciding.
Being a UK professional registrant requires ongoing annual fees, but these demonstrate a continuing commitment to professionalism and willingness where appropriate to engage in peer review (such as CPD monitoring). The fees involved are modest relative to typical incomes. You lose the right to display the professional title if you leave the register, but it is fair and honest to declare on a CV when you gained recognition and how long you held it for. Chartered Engineer in particular is highly valued in many situations and expected is some. The Incorporated and Technician categories although less commonly held, are well-respected in certain areas of employment and can be an advantage. It is common in the UK for employers to pay employees professional fees as a way of encouraging personal and career development. For example, many employers would share my expectation that today’s Apprentice Technician could become a Chartered Engineer and/or senior manager in future. Therefore the frame of reference that I would encourage is of continuous development over a career, with registration confirming the passing of a one or more milestones and ongoing commitment. This may explain why I dislike using a system that sorts teenagers “into sheep and goats” as the basis for differentiating between, or apportioning recognition of, engineering and technology as practiced by experienced professionals. I accept that there are more of less optimised early career pathways, for those with different aptitudes into different types of work, but argue that comparable performance deserves comparable recognition.
Incidentally there are tax breaks for professional registration fees in the UK and public policy largely assumes that professional body recognition is a desirable outcome of education and training, so degrees and apprenticeships leading to this are seem as being “gold standard”.
Another way to frame this discussion would be “what are the best qualifications for me to seek”? Inevitably the answer is - it depends on your circumstances and motivation. The context is engineering and technology and my thoughts are; In preparation for a career or as part of early career training, if you have reasonable academic ability, then find a pathway that will potentially lead to a relevant degree qualification from a reputable institution. If employment and training is involved then the degree might be less urgent or important, but get one if you can eventually, even if it is a distance learning “top-up”. What qualifications older people did is of historical interest only. If a good employment option isn’t available, or you just prefer to remain in full-time education, then study what interests and motivates you. If you have a clear career aim in mind then an accredited course is ideal , but don’t become too narrow too soon , or underestimate the value of the general communication skills , that should characterise all good university graduates and exemplify many people’s definition of “a professional”.
If you are interested in Engineering and Technology but less-motivated in an academic direction then there are paths leading to successful and lucrative careers through practical training and linked education. For example there is long and distinguished list of Electricians who have become successful as engineers, business leaders or in other fields, such as the one I met a few years ago who was his country’s president and a Nobel Laureate. The world of IT also has many examples where personal initiative and entrepreneurial flair has been more important than formal qualifications.
For someone with an established track record seeking further qualifications, there are too many potential variables to offer a prescription. However my experience suggests that holding a degree form a reputable university is an advantage most of the time. The likely best option to achieve this for many mid-career professionals would be a masters programme, there are part-time, distance-learning and even work-based learning versions in the UK. It is often possible to try a module in the first instance.
If you are seeking recognition by a statutory body for licensing or migration then you need to understand the rules, not just what is written down but how they are interpreted in practice, including what precedent may exist for your circumstances. Some internet research could be a start, but some form of “legal” advice may be needed.
The professional registration process operated by the IET is regulated by Engineering Council rules and based on UK-SPEC, this if fairly close to a statutory system in some respects, but because the published standard is generic and participation is voluntary, it would be better described as a “peer review resulting in a professional opinion”. For some Engineering Council affiliated institutions this may be mainly about counting qualifications, but the IET seeks evidence of career achievement as a whole. In practice, few people seek registration without falling within one of the UK-SPEC categories.
In the context of employment, it is simply a marketplace and you need to understand the market relevant to you. For someone who doesn’t, this may be their most pressing development need. Unfortunately the first time many Engineers and Technicians think about this is when they become unemployed, under-employed or are frustrated by their inability to progress their career. As an individual, your qualifications including professional recognitions, industry specific training or accreditations, are part of the product features that you present to the market. Employers (analogous to consumers or prospective customers) often represented by particular individuals, will have a wide variety of preferences and prejudices, even within one part of a large business one influential manager might have different preferences to another. To avoid turning this post into a tome, you need to capture interest, avoid rejection on spurious grounds and hopefully close the deal on a win-win basis once you have engaged.
Your post is well-reasoned and with Moshe also adding his experience, any reader of this thread , should be better positioned to understand the different options and their context. A significant theme here is mobility and migration especially in a North American context, this is something that I have limited understanding of, for example the use of a credential evaluator. The IET uses NARIC to compare qualifications and validate overseas awarding institutions, in addition to The Washington Accord, FEANI et al where mutual recognition of qualifications is agreed by treaty. It seems that the Professional Recognition Awards (“Senior Awards” to 2013) have value to credential evaluators, but comments here that suggest that City & Guilds themselves have lacked enthusiasm for them in recent times. To pick up on Andy’s theme, without the explanation “degree level” most employers are just not really aware of MGCI and if they are would assume that it was a management award, similar to CMI. Unless anyone knows differently, it seems that engineering content disappeared with the change from “Senior Awards” to “Professional Recognition Awards”? It also seems that in the period before this change some (or even most?) MCGI awards were based on the person already being CEng registered and paying a fee without any further assessment. I would therefore hesitate to recommend these awards, except to those seeking a competency based management qualification, who should carefully consider the range of options available before deciding.
Being a UK professional registrant requires ongoing annual fees, but these demonstrate a continuing commitment to professionalism and willingness where appropriate to engage in peer review (such as CPD monitoring). The fees involved are modest relative to typical incomes. You lose the right to display the professional title if you leave the register, but it is fair and honest to declare on a CV when you gained recognition and how long you held it for. Chartered Engineer in particular is highly valued in many situations and expected is some. The Incorporated and Technician categories although less commonly held, are well-respected in certain areas of employment and can be an advantage. It is common in the UK for employers to pay employees professional fees as a way of encouraging personal and career development. For example, many employers would share my expectation that today’s Apprentice Technician could become a Chartered Engineer and/or senior manager in future. Therefore the frame of reference that I would encourage is of continuous development over a career, with registration confirming the passing of a one or more milestones and ongoing commitment. This may explain why I dislike using a system that sorts teenagers “into sheep and goats” as the basis for differentiating between, or apportioning recognition of, engineering and technology as practiced by experienced professionals. I accept that there are more of less optimised early career pathways, for those with different aptitudes into different types of work, but argue that comparable performance deserves comparable recognition.
Incidentally there are tax breaks for professional registration fees in the UK and public policy largely assumes that professional body recognition is a desirable outcome of education and training, so degrees and apprenticeships leading to this are seem as being “gold standard”.
Another way to frame this discussion would be “what are the best qualifications for me to seek”? Inevitably the answer is - it depends on your circumstances and motivation. The context is engineering and technology and my thoughts are; In preparation for a career or as part of early career training, if you have reasonable academic ability, then find a pathway that will potentially lead to a relevant degree qualification from a reputable institution. If employment and training is involved then the degree might be less urgent or important, but get one if you can eventually, even if it is a distance learning “top-up”. What qualifications older people did is of historical interest only. If a good employment option isn’t available, or you just prefer to remain in full-time education, then study what interests and motivates you. If you have a clear career aim in mind then an accredited course is ideal , but don’t become too narrow too soon , or underestimate the value of the general communication skills , that should characterise all good university graduates and exemplify many people’s definition of “a professional”.
If you are interested in Engineering and Technology but less-motivated in an academic direction then there are paths leading to successful and lucrative careers through practical training and linked education. For example there is long and distinguished list of Electricians who have become successful as engineers, business leaders or in other fields, such as the one I met a few years ago who was his country’s president and a Nobel Laureate. The world of IT also has many examples where personal initiative and entrepreneurial flair has been more important than formal qualifications.
For someone with an established track record seeking further qualifications, there are too many potential variables to offer a prescription. However my experience suggests that holding a degree form a reputable university is an advantage most of the time. The likely best option to achieve this for many mid-career professionals would be a masters programme, there are part-time, distance-learning and even work-based learning versions in the UK. It is often possible to try a module in the first instance.
If you are seeking recognition by a statutory body for licensing or migration then you need to understand the rules, not just what is written down but how they are interpreted in practice, including what precedent may exist for your circumstances. Some internet research could be a start, but some form of “legal” advice may be needed.
The professional registration process operated by the IET is regulated by Engineering Council rules and based on UK-SPEC, this if fairly close to a statutory system in some respects, but because the published standard is generic and participation is voluntary, it would be better described as a “peer review resulting in a professional opinion”. For some Engineering Council affiliated institutions this may be mainly about counting qualifications, but the IET seeks evidence of career achievement as a whole. In practice, few people seek registration without falling within one of the UK-SPEC categories.
In the context of employment, it is simply a marketplace and you need to understand the market relevant to you. For someone who doesn’t, this may be their most pressing development need. Unfortunately the first time many Engineers and Technicians think about this is when they become unemployed, under-employed or are frustrated by their inability to progress their career. As an individual, your qualifications including professional recognitions, industry specific training or accreditations, are part of the product features that you present to the market. Employers (analogous to consumers or prospective customers) often represented by particular individuals, will have a wide variety of preferences and prejudices, even within one part of a large business one influential manager might have different preferences to another. To avoid turning this post into a tome, you need to capture interest, avoid rejection on spurious grounds and hopefully close the deal on a win-win basis once you have engaged.
