Gareth Wood:
Hi Andy, you quote 10^14 for track circuits. Do you have reference for that figure please. Just been in an argument with other people over removal of track circuits vs. unproven GPS location system. This would be helpful. Thanks. If you don't mind I will join the conversation below.
Hi Gareth,
That was a bit naughty of me as I don't usually quote figures I can't publicly back up! If you look on my LinkedIn profile it won't take a lot of detective work to work out where that figure came from but as it isn't (afaik) published by Network Rail or Bombardier I'd better not go much further. And I may be an order of magnitude or two out (I wrote it from memory), but it's of around that order.
The bottom line is that I don't think there is any serious argument that a modern track circuit has any direct safety concerns whatsoever. There is a far more interesting discussion about the indirect risks due to reliability issues with track circuits, which then results in degredation to manual signalling which is phenomenally dangerous. Track circuit reliability can be vastly improved with condition monitoring, allowing pre-detection of failure conditions, but again it's a matter of expense. Maybe if a fatal accident occurs in degraded manual signalling mode which could have been prevented if (root cause) the track circuit had been readjusted / track connections repaired there will be more drive for this.
There was a very interesting IRSE presentation on Tuesday night by Network Rail & ProRail. This was explaining the possibility of a "hybrid" system running ETCS level 3 but with the existing block sections in place. Practically this could mean that the system could run level 3 (including autonomous!) trains interleaved with non-ETCS trains. It's just that there would be the existing large headway between the level 3 trains and unequipped trains. Very interesting for routes which mostly run fixed formation passenger stock with occasional freight trains. I'll be watching with interest.
Kind regards,
Andy
Gareth Wood:
Hi Andy, you quote 10^14 for track circuits. Do you have reference for that figure please. Just been in an argument with other people over removal of track circuits vs. unproven GPS location system. This would be helpful. Thanks. If you don't mind I will join the conversation below.
Hi Gareth,
That was a bit naughty of me as I don't usually quote figures I can't publicly back up! If you look on my LinkedIn profile it won't take a lot of detective work to work out where that figure came from but as it isn't (afaik) published by Network Rail or Bombardier I'd better not go much further. And I may be an order of magnitude or two out (I wrote it from memory), but it's of around that order.
The bottom line is that I don't think there is any serious argument that a modern track circuit has any direct safety concerns whatsoever. There is a far more interesting discussion about the indirect risks due to reliability issues with track circuits, which then results in degredation to manual signalling which is phenomenally dangerous. Track circuit reliability can be vastly improved with condition monitoring, allowing pre-detection of failure conditions, but again it's a matter of expense. Maybe if a fatal accident occurs in degraded manual signalling mode which could have been prevented if (root cause) the track circuit had been readjusted / track connections repaired there will be more drive for this.
There was a very interesting IRSE presentation on Tuesday night by Network Rail & ProRail. This was explaining the possibility of a "hybrid" system running ETCS level 3 but with the existing block sections in place. Practically this could mean that the system could run level 3 (including autonomous!) trains interleaved with non-ETCS trains. It's just that there would be the existing large headway between the level 3 trains and unequipped trains. Very interesting for routes which mostly run fixed formation passenger stock with occasional freight trains. I'll be watching with interest.
Kind regards,
Andy
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