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U.K. ENGINEERING 2016 REPORT

Former Community Member
Former Community Member
​I have noted in another discussion, several comments of my own, but there seems to be a lack of interest or it takes too long to read and digest the report.

​Apart from Roy's original comments and direction to be able to read the report, it would be great to find out if IMechE, ICE and the IET have had any official comments on the report and if not, when can we expect any.?


​Daniel


P.S. Just had to get away from CEng v IEng status discussion.
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  • Former Community Member
    0 Former Community Member in reply to Legh Richardson

    Moshe ;

    I agree with your
    observations.

    People will
    continue to move to find
    work.      -  At a lower salary
    because their local market has been destroyed, it is already
    happening

     

    Many engineers earn a
    good salary. -     There is a huge market of
    second rate (BSc) engineers on precarious contracts with basic
    salaries , as there are medical doctors and
    jurists.


    In the end, business
    leaders, who control the money/salaries, view engineering as a
    commodity. -     It is happening now
    that’s why we have Trump, BREXIT and now FREXIT and
    Hungary.

     

    What maintains a CEng, IEng,
    PEng, PE and one's competence?  Still
    remains     ongoing and
    successful engineering practice.     
    - After this report
    is actualised, I Eng will be degraded

     

    As I am trying to point
    out, the UK PEs that strived to form IIE for all grades, all
    gender, all domains of engineering have been let down by the IEE
    CEng, global contingent at IET.

    The UK Engineering 2016
    Report is trying to face up to today’s UK necessities as IIE did
    before.

     

    That is to say; a quality
    education, formation, training and registration of UK
    engineers.

     

    However people will
    always look after their interests first.

     

    The UK does not have
    enough PEs, those that we have do not have the skills for modern
    engineering.

    There is an over
    abundance of Masters and PhDs that cannot find work and are taking
    BSc positions for which they do not have the training or
    formation.

     

    To today’s necessities
    are bilingual, BSc PEs with full IT operational competences, but
    skilled in their atypical domains with a full generalist 
    background, and a basic knowledge of finance, contract law, project
    management with systems analysis  just for
    starters.

    The CEng requirements for
    higher maths is long gone, it is for those going into specialised
    research.

    An engineer that
    calculates is a danger, he has to apply approved mathematical
    models and codes only.

     

    There are two branches of
    Master, one is research, the other is specialisation. Research goes
    on to a now out of date PhD, and the specialist is only a
    specialist in his domain, not able to change
    disciplines.

    The MEng needs to be re
    assessed, but it is the road to a true engineer.

     

    Managers can come from
    any field not just engineering.

     

    My family contacts bring
    me into relations with young adults of all standards most of them
    are over educated  with two or three masters and unemployable.
    Those that took Licence and worked, have a good start in life with
    responsible jobs and all the consequences.

     

    You are basing your
    comments on neo liberalism.

     

    This is now abandoned;
    Europe is addressing this today and is in a mess, USA went popular
    as did Britain with Trump and BREXIT.

    We now have
    protectionism.

    I have worked for US and
    German companies, they have all moved the French design offices to
    their countries, gone global, delocalising into lower paid
    countries and then closing down their production bases outside of
    France. This Globalisation.

     

    This policy of unfounded
    economics leads to some phenomena which destroy our engineering
    systems-

    These are :

    Hegemonisation,
         the ruling by a minority of
    a majority. CEng dominating IEng & Technician.

    Commodification,
    selling unsellable systems
    for profit, - English as a foreign language, coupled with
    universities and university qualifications, and Professional
    English language engineering registration (    CEng and IEng).

    Communitarianism
    which
    gives us all the political problems, but includes CEng exclusion of
    IEng, I gave examples, but the IET IT system did not print the copy
    paste.

    What I showed was how Job
    propositions made by CEng in the UK specify CEng only for what are
    only IEng jobs. The other example was IMech E PEs recruiting only I
    Mech Es and blocking IET mechanical engineering. 

    IET for pure profit
    recruited a mass of these PEs even though they were denigrating IET
    mechanicals.

    Globalisation
    which
    will destroy home based engineering economies.

     

    Leaving politics, economics
    and even religion on the sideline, what we need for our engineering
    future is:

     


    -         
    A sensible equal system of
    engineering training which, like law and medicine requires a long
    practical formation.


    -         
    We need to bring back the
    principle of quality (Six sigma, QA be it what it may) to our
    engineering practice.


    -         
    We need to manage our
    engineering markets.


    -         
    Each country needs to clean
    up and re-establish its own engineering base.


    -         
    We need reasonable free
    trade, but not exploitation.

     -    
    Engineers need lots of practice

    T

    he problem being addressed
    is firstly a British
    one-

    The Major three PEIs ICE, IET, IME are
    going to exclude all the other PEIs from The UK ENGINEERING 2016
    Report     approval.

    IET is now acting as the
    Electrical and IT spokes person.

    The Generalist and
    specialist PEI and PEs are being locked out of
    discussions.

    This is British Politics,
    which is based upon Neo liberalism in today’s mutation with Hegemonisation,
    Communitarianism, & Globalisation.

     

    The Big Three PEIs at CEng
    dominance will decide for the poor incapable rest ie : IEng,
    Technologists, Technicians, both specialists and
    generalists.

     

    The future of our economy is
    based on future quality engineering.

    We need true working
    engineers

    We need to decide what
    future engineering is to be

    We need to train these
    future engineers by apprenticeship combined with educational and
    industrial support. Government will give the means but will not
    control.

    For safety; engineers need
    to be properly registered.

     

    The UK ENGINEERING 2016
    Report is addressing this problem, do not let it be hijacked by
    these out of date hegemonists.

     

    The question is
    –

    Does the majority of MIET
    agree.

    If so, then IET has let down
    its founding members and its raison d’être.

    Change is necessary, but
    greed, pride and prejudice is not engineering.

     

    It is not for
    me.

    I’m an Engineer no matter
    what others think – I work and get paid as an
    engineer.

     

    John Gowman,
    MIET

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