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A new model of high-value engineering education

Following on from the UK Engineering Report 2016 (and the discussion of same in this forum) and the adequacy or not of current efforts to educate and train, and to encourage the registration of our future engineers, I am intrigued about a “new model in technology and engineering” (NMiTE http://www.nmite.org.uk). It is a new University that is to focus on the teaching of engineering.

In a recent press release, it says:  


“At NMiTE we believe that engineering education can be different.
We’re here to unlock the creativity and drive of Britain’s next generation – the Passioneers – the designers and builders, problem solvers and innovators who will shape our future.


We’re establishing a new model of high-value engineering education:


  • Creating a beacon institution to help address the engineering skills shortage that threatens to hobble the UK’s ability to compete globally.

  • With a new approach to learning – based on real-world problem solving and the blending of high quality engineering, design, liberal arts and humanities with communication and employability skills targeted at the growth sectors of the future.

  • Located on a new and different type of campus – designed for inspiration, collaboration and a deep connection to the global community.

  • And reinforced by an innovation ecosystem of global corporations & SME entrepreneurs, coupled with global universities, not just to invest, but to contribute knowledge and expertise – with New Model students at its centre.

We’re shaping an institution to create and deliver 21st century engineers – catalysts for innovation and change – a new model generation of emotionally intelligent entrepreneurs, innovators, employees and leaders for the future."


Two things strike me as very different about this proposition:

  1. Its motto is “no lectures, no exams, no text books” (!). It plans to be very practically-based, largely conducted within real industry.

Apparently, it will also have no departments, no faculties, no tenure, no Council.  Instead, it’ll have “teaching teams designed around the delivery of our unique engineering and Human Interaction curriculum” (developed by an impressive, international, and overwhelmingly academic array of advisors and partners).


  1. It’s located in the city of Hereford (admittedly partly a personal one as a resident of Herefordshire for over 30 years). 

It is a city by virtue of its cathedral but it is one of the smaller cities in the UK with a population of just over 50k, and is in England's first or second most rural county (depending on how you rank it). Hereford’s engineering heritage is largely unremarkable as it is known more for its agricultural and food output (beef, potatoes, strawberries, apples, cider(!), beer, etc.) and of being home to the UK's elite special forces regiments. It has engineering history in munitions production from during WWII and it's current engineering association is with food production, double-glazing, Morgan chassis and JCB cab manufacture, insulation material forming, and that’s largely it. So, not the most obvious choice to base a new Advanced Engineering University then!


The NMiTE project has been described (The Times 6th Sep 2016) as “at worst an intriguing experiment and at best an innovative template that traditional universities might learn from”.

What do you think?


As an aside, I have seen nothing of NMiTE in these forums or indeed on the IET website – yet, apparently (and quite rightly) the IET has been an advisor/contributor/supporter.


As a footnote, I would very much like to reach out and connect with any IET members/fellows that are/have been involved in NMiTE with a view of my getting involved too.
  • Former Community Member
    0 Former Community Member in reply to Chris Pearson




    Peter,

    I have been in touch with the ECUK, for various reasons other
    than IET.

    They inform me that they have no authority over PEIs, they
    are bound to carry out the PEIs demands.



    They seemed to be in favour of the Uff Report, but have no
    authority do do anything untill instructed by the PEIs.



    They main group of PEIs are the RAE, IME, ICE and IET. All
    other PEIs do not count.



    You will see from the various verbaql agressions and actions
    by certain IET CEng members that they will do all that is possible
    to maintain the status quo and refuse the Uff Report.



    There is no support for reform and registration of PEs with
    BSc.



    John Gowman MIET 

    founder member ITEME >>> IET








    Garanti sans virus.
    www.avg.com




  • Former Community Member
    0 Former Community Member in reply to Chris Pearson




    Peter,

    I have been in touch with the ECUK, for various reasons other
    than IET.

    They inform me that they have no authority over PEIs, they
    are bound to carry out the PEIs demands.



    They seemed to be in favour of the Uff Report, but have no
    authority do do anything untill instructed by the PEIs.



    They main group of PEIs are the RAE, IME, ICE and IET. All
    other PEIs do not count.



    You will see from the various verbaql agressions and actions
    by certain IET CEng members that they will do all that is possible
    to maintain the status quo and refuse the Uff Report.



    There is no support for reform and registration of PEs with
    BSc.



    John Gowman MIET 

    founder member ITEME >>> IET








    Garanti sans virus.
    www.avg.com




  • Former Community Member
    0 Former Community Member in reply to Chris Pearson




    Peter,

    I have been in touch with the ECUK, for various reasons other
    than IET.

    They inform me that they have no authority over PEIs, they
    are bound to carry out the PEIs demands.



    They seemed to be in favour of the Uff Report, but have no
    authority do do anything untill instructed by the PEIs.



    They main group of PEIs are the RAE, IME, ICE and IET. All
    other PEIs do not count.



    You will see from the various verbaql agressions and actions
    by certain IET CEng members that they will do all that is possible
    to maintain the status quo and refuse the Uff Report.



    There is no support for reform and registration of PEs with
    BSc.



    John Gowman MIET 

    founder member ITEME >>> IET








    Garanti sans virus.
    www.avg.com




  • Former Community Member
    0 Former Community Member in reply to Chris Pearson




    Peter,

    I have been in touch with the ECUK, for various reasons other
    than IET.

    They inform me that they have no authority over PEIs, they
    are bound to carry out the PEIs demands.



    They seemed to be in favour of the Uff Report, but have no
    authority do do anything untill instructed by the PEIs.



    They main group of PEIs are the RAE, IME, ICE and IET. All
    other PEIs do not count.



    You will see from the various verbaql agressions and actions
    by certain IET CEng members that they will do all that is possible
    to maintain the status quo and refuse the Uff Report.



    There is no support for reform and registration of PEs with
    BSc.



    John Gowman MIET 

    founder member ITEME >>> IET








    Garanti sans virus.
    www.avg.com




  • Former Community Member
    0 Former Community Member
    John,

    What do you mean by there is no support for registering of PEs with BSc.


    In my understanding, there are multiple routes to registration as PE's what is important is how an applicant 

    can demonstrate their achievements as related to the  UK SPEC for the registration as PE,  

    I know members who got registered with BSc degree or HND only etc

    Now from what I remember  Professors John Uff CBE QC FREng report that has been published was commissioned by the three professional engineering institutions in March 2016 – IET,
    ICE and IMechE.


    The Engineering Council commissioned a review (Project GALILEO) in 2014 into what changes the PEIs wished to see in the regulatory function. Whilst relatively minor improvements were suggested, there was no call for regulation to be either increased or relaxed.

    But this is, in reality, a partnership the PEI's and EngC are co-dependent on each other. It is not hierarchical in my view but a council of Engineering Institutions.


    The key point is that the" Engineering Council’s governance structure is based on weighted groups that allow each of the licensed institutions to have a proportionate voice in the self-regulation of the profession.   A governance structure whose decision making is founded on consultation and fundamentally based on consent. "

    Its clear to me that ICE will have very high influence proportionally as one of the largest and oldest PEI's.

    file:///C:/Users/ctipr_000/Downloads/eng2016%20(2).pdf   page 38


  • Former Community Member
    0 Former Community Member in reply to Chris Pearson

    Moshe, 

    In the UK we are
    facing a major crisis, which needs innovative PEs to engineer us
    out of the BREXIT chaos.

    (we need a Trump or
    a Macron to bang a few heads together).

    This PE registration
    fiasco is the result of the UK attitudes to education and
    technology, difficult to understand if you are not in the UK.



    PE registration in
    the UK has to be a UK resident or UK citizen's case, solution
    only.



    Taking present day factual
    statistics:

    • IET was created by
      amalgamation in 2006, the agreements of amalgamation have not been
      respected.

    • IET membership in
      2006 was 150K, ten years on, it is 170K and most of the IEng staff
      and members who are not IT or Electrical have left this PEI. (This
      is nothing to boast about - a failure in my mind)

    • The IET UK PE
      membership is not disclosed, IET is carefull not to publish such
      facts.

    • Today 10% of UK PEs (
      HNC to PhD) are not male.

    • 70% of all PEs in the
      UK are not ECUK registered.

    • The majority of UK
      PEs belong to the four major PE disciplines - IME, ICE, I Chem E
      and IET (now mainly electrical & IT) plus RAE the remaining 45
      or more PEIs have little say at ECUK.

    PEI membership is
    mainly subjective, IET being a prime case (At ITEME we needed
    confirmation of our engineering past not a reference; in France
    references are illegal)

    Subjective means
    that you have to please the PEI recruiters that you are one of the
    "chaps" (an
    expression used against me on this blog").

    From IET blogs, it
    is clear that IET has reverted back to CEng MSc, Electrical &
    IT dominance.



    I am not one of the
    "chaps", I am a PE - with 51years experience and founder member of
    ITEME, campaigning for the non subjective, UK registration of all
    UK PEs who meet UKSpec (HNC, BSc minimum plus training &
    experience); this comprises the missing 90% UK Female PEs and the
    70 UK PEs all disciplines and genders confounded.

    I undrstood that the
    Uff report suggested the same principles - PEs to be registered if
    HNC plus with UK Spec attainment - to be named Professional
    Engineers.



    Since seeing these
    blogs a year ago, I have forced the hand of IET to accept that
    IEng can be
    EurIng
    , That the French LN be reorganised and no longer
    IEE CEng Electrical (IET-LN France is illegal due to French
    Revolution laws), I have provoked discussion on IEng CEng status
    and I have set the example by retiring from ECUK after my last work
    contract.



    I have also noted
    that there is little interest in engineering that is not IT at IET.
    Just look at the Engineering Communities blogs.

    I have posted
    comments and information on future power on the Eng. Com. blogs, on
    average only three people have even opened the blog page (3/170K)
    probably by error. Just type my name on Eng Com Search to see the
    poor interest in any form of engineering at IET.



    We are in an age
    (already passed) of commodification of diplomas and PE
    registration, but IET is not a commercial enterprise, or is
    it? 

    IET can now survive
    without its members participation because as an enterprise, the
    members have to stay, to be UK CEng or IEng
    - they will be
    banned from engineering posts otherwise.

    We are selling CEng
    and MIET just as universities are selling diplomas for
    profit. 

    Just as the church
    or other religions sold indulgences, see M Luther or the Pilgrim
    fathers.



    You need CEng
    because CEng advertise the posts with CEng only (I resolved the
    Fusion CEng problem by confronting the Chief Engineer face to face,
    IET has just failed to
    support me
    even though CCFE refused to recruit MIET
    CEng) 

    CCFE has just placed
    another job offer (before it was CEng ) now they call for an
    experienced professional engineer HNC or BSc. It pays to
    stand up and complain.



    I understand that
    the people who use this blog want to protect what they have gained
    by hard work.

    In the UK it was,
    who you know, that
    counted and any old diploma afterwards.



    I do not see the big
    five supporting the Uff recomendations, but I do see the revision
    of UK engineering education and training, and eventual PE non
    subjective registration. It is for the younger generation to stand
    up for their just rights.



    There is one hell of
    a lot of corruption and underhand dealings involved in engineering,
    as it is the world's leading market; there are those that want to
    see engineers commodified. Unfortunately I have been involved with
    major companies that treat engineers as articles that they discard
    as soon as their utility has expired.



    I am sure that there
    will be some MIETs, who are well past their sell by date, that will
    moan and use their inside influences to ban me again, but the mass
    of PEs that want equality and recognition will eventually
    win.



    Engineering is fun,
    engineering is dangerous, that is why it has to be carefully
    managed and guided by PEIs.

    We have to recruit
    the 90% of possible UK PEs ( HNC to PhD) who are not male and the
    70% of all PEs in the UK who are not ECUK registered in IET or some
    such PEI.



    In fact, what the
    Uff report is about, is a new ECUK registration system, and PEIs
    that look after engineering; not just selective, subjective
    registration. 

    The ECUK does not
    promote subjective registration, it is impossed on ECUK by its
    major PEI (big four) members.



    John Gowman, BA
    MIET

    Ingénieur Chercheur,
    (retired)

    Authorised to carry out
    engineering, research, project management in nuclear installations
    for a an atomic and alternative energy research centre
    .

    I have
    consulted to, and worked with, many of the world's leading
    technologists and very big technology projects. 




  • Former Community Member
    0 Former Community Member in reply to Chris Pearson

    Moshe, 

    In the UK we are
    facing a major crisis, which needs innovative PEs to engineer us
    out of the BREXIT chaos.

    (we need a Trump or
    a Macron to bang a few heads together).

    This PE registration
    fiasco is the result of the UK attitudes to education and
    technology, difficult to understand if you are not in the UK.



    PE registration in
    the UK has to be a UK resident or UK citizen's case, solution
    only.



    Taking present day factual
    statistics:

    • IET was created by
      amalgamation in 2006, the agreements of amalgamation have not been
      respected.

    • IET membership in
      2006 was 150K, ten years on, it is 170K and most of the IEng staff
      and members who are not IT or Electrical have left this PEI. (This
      is nothing to boast about - a failure in my mind)

    • The IET UK PE
      membership is not disclosed, IET is carefull not to publish such
      facts.

    • Today 10% of UK PEs (
      HNC to PhD) are not male.

    • 70% of all PEs in the
      UK are not ECUK registered.

    • The majority of UK
      PEs belong to the four major PE disciplines - IME, ICE, I Chem E
      and IET (now mainly electrical & IT) plus RAE the remaining 45
      or more PEIs have little say at ECUK.

    PEI membership is
    mainly subjective, IET being a prime case (At ITEME we needed
    confirmation of our engineering past not a reference; in France
    references are illegal)

    Subjective means
    that you have to please the PEI recruiters that you are one of the
    "chaps" (an
    expression used against me on this blog").

    From IET blogs, it
    is clear that IET has reverted back to CEng MSc, Electrical &
    IT dominance.



    I am not one of the
    "chaps", I am a PE - with 51years experience and founder member of
    ITEME, campaigning for the non subjective, UK registration of all
    UK PEs who meet UKSpec (HNC, BSc minimum plus training &
    experience); this comprises the missing 90% UK Female PEs and the
    70 UK PEs all disciplines and genders confounded.

    I undrstood that the
    Uff report suggested the same principles - PEs to be registered if
    HNC plus with UK Spec attainment - to be named Professional
    Engineers.



    Since seeing these
    blogs a year ago, I have forced the hand of IET to accept that
    IEng can be
    EurIng
    , That the French LN be reorganised and no longer
    IEE CEng Electrical (IET-LN France is illegal due to French
    Revolution laws), I have provoked discussion on IEng CEng status
    and I have set the example by retiring from ECUK after my last work
    contract.



    I have also noted
    that there is little interest in engineering that is not IT at IET.
    Just look at the Engineering Communities blogs.

    I have posted
    comments and information on future power on the Eng. Com. blogs, on
    average only three people have even opened the blog page (3/170K)
    probably by error. Just type my name on Eng Com Search to see the
    poor interest in any form of engineering at IET.



    We are in an age
    (already passed) of commodification of diplomas and PE
    registration, but IET is not a commercial enterprise, or is
    it? 

    IET can now survive
    without its members participation because as an enterprise, the
    members have to stay, to be UK CEng or IEng
    - they will be
    banned from engineering posts otherwise.

    We are selling CEng
    and MIET just as universities are selling diplomas for
    profit. 

    Just as the church
    or other religions sold indulgences, see M Luther or the Pilgrim
    fathers.



    You need CEng
    because CEng advertise the posts with CEng only (I resolved the
    Fusion CEng problem by confronting the Chief Engineer face to face,
    IET has just failed to
    support me
    even though CCFE refused to recruit MIET
    CEng) 

    CCFE has just placed
    another job offer (before it was CEng ) now they call for an
    experienced professional engineer HNC or BSc. It pays to
    stand up and complain.



    I understand that
    the people who use this blog want to protect what they have gained
    by hard work.

    In the UK it was,
    who you know, that
    counted and any old diploma afterwards.



    I do not see the big
    five supporting the Uff recomendations, but I do see the revision
    of UK engineering education and training, and eventual PE non
    subjective registration. It is for the younger generation to stand
    up for their just rights.



    There is one hell of
    a lot of corruption and underhand dealings involved in engineering,
    as it is the world's leading market; there are those that want to
    see engineers commodified. Unfortunately I have been involved with
    major companies that treat engineers as articles that they discard
    as soon as their utility has expired.



    I am sure that there
    will be some MIETs, who are well past their sell by date, that will
    moan and use their inside influences to ban me again, but the mass
    of PEs that want equality and recognition will eventually
    win.



    Engineering is fun,
    engineering is dangerous, that is why it has to be carefully
    managed and guided by PEIs.

    We have to recruit
    the 90% of possible UK PEs ( HNC to PhD) who are not male and the
    70% of all PEs in the UK who are not ECUK registered in IET or some
    such PEI.



    In fact, what the
    Uff report is about, is a new ECUK registration system, and PEIs
    that look after engineering; not just selective, subjective
    registration. 

    The ECUK does not
    promote subjective registration, it is impossed on ECUK by its
    major PEI (big four) members.



    John Gowman, BA
    MIET

    Ingénieur Chercheur,
    (retired)

    Authorised to carry out
    engineering, research, project management in nuclear installations
    for a an atomic and alternative energy research centre
    .

    I have
    consulted to, and worked with, many of the world's leading
    technologists and very big technology projects. 




  • Former Community Member
    0 Former Community Member in reply to Chris Pearson

    Moshe, 

    In the UK we are
    facing a major crisis, which needs innovative PEs to engineer us
    out of the BREXIT chaos.

    (we need a Trump or
    a Macron to bang a few heads together).

    This PE registration
    fiasco is the result of the UK attitudes to education and
    technology, difficult to understand if you are not in the UK.



    PE registration in
    the UK has to be a UK resident or UK citizen's case, solution
    only.



    Taking present day factual
    statistics:

    • IET was created by
      amalgamation in 2006, the agreements of amalgamation have not been
      respected.

    • IET membership in
      2006 was 150K, ten years on, it is 170K and most of the IEng staff
      and members who are not IT or Electrical have left this PEI. (This
      is nothing to boast about - a failure in my mind)

    • The IET UK PE
      membership is not disclosed, IET is carefull not to publish such
      facts.

    • Today 10% of UK PEs (
      HNC to PhD) are not male.

    • 70% of all PEs in the
      UK are not ECUK registered.

    • The majority of UK
      PEs belong to the four major PE disciplines - IME, ICE, I Chem E
      and IET (now mainly electrical & IT) plus RAE the remaining 45
      or more PEIs have little say at ECUK.

    PEI membership is
    mainly subjective, IET being a prime case (At ITEME we needed
    confirmation of our engineering past not a reference; in France
    references are illegal)

    Subjective means
    that you have to please the PEI recruiters that you are one of the
    "chaps" (an
    expression used against me on this blog").

    From IET blogs, it
    is clear that IET has reverted back to CEng MSc, Electrical &
    IT dominance.



    I am not one of the
    "chaps", I am a PE - with 51years experience and founder member of
    ITEME, campaigning for the non subjective, UK registration of all
    UK PEs who meet UKSpec (HNC, BSc minimum plus training &
    experience); this comprises the missing 90% UK Female PEs and the
    70 UK PEs all disciplines and genders confounded.

    I undrstood that the
    Uff report suggested the same principles - PEs to be registered if
    HNC plus with UK Spec attainment - to be named Professional
    Engineers.



    Since seeing these
    blogs a year ago, I have forced the hand of IET to accept that
    IEng can be
    EurIng
    , That the French LN be reorganised and no longer
    IEE CEng Electrical (IET-LN France is illegal due to French
    Revolution laws), I have provoked discussion on IEng CEng status
    and I have set the example by retiring from ECUK after my last work
    contract.



    I have also noted
    that there is little interest in engineering that is not IT at IET.
    Just look at the Engineering Communities blogs.

    I have posted
    comments and information on future power on the Eng. Com. blogs, on
    average only three people have even opened the blog page (3/170K)
    probably by error. Just type my name on Eng Com Search to see the
    poor interest in any form of engineering at IET.



    We are in an age
    (already passed) of commodification of diplomas and PE
    registration, but IET is not a commercial enterprise, or is
    it? 

    IET can now survive
    without its members participation because as an enterprise, the
    members have to stay, to be UK CEng or IEng
    - they will be
    banned from engineering posts otherwise.

    We are selling CEng
    and MIET just as universities are selling diplomas for
    profit. 

    Just as the church
    or other religions sold indulgences, see M Luther or the Pilgrim
    fathers.



    You need CEng
    because CEng advertise the posts with CEng only (I resolved the
    Fusion CEng problem by confronting the Chief Engineer face to face,
    IET has just failed to
    support me
    even though CCFE refused to recruit MIET
    CEng) 

    CCFE has just placed
    another job offer (before it was CEng ) now they call for an
    experienced professional engineer HNC or BSc. It pays to
    stand up and complain.



    I understand that
    the people who use this blog want to protect what they have gained
    by hard work.

    In the UK it was,
    who you know, that
    counted and any old diploma afterwards.



    I do not see the big
    five supporting the Uff recomendations, but I do see the revision
    of UK engineering education and training, and eventual PE non
    subjective registration. It is for the younger generation to stand
    up for their just rights.



    There is one hell of
    a lot of corruption and underhand dealings involved in engineering,
    as it is the world's leading market; there are those that want to
    see engineers commodified. Unfortunately I have been involved with
    major companies that treat engineers as articles that they discard
    as soon as their utility has expired.



    I am sure that there
    will be some MIETs, who are well past their sell by date, that will
    moan and use their inside influences to ban me again, but the mass
    of PEs that want equality and recognition will eventually
    win.



    Engineering is fun,
    engineering is dangerous, that is why it has to be carefully
    managed and guided by PEIs.

    We have to recruit
    the 90% of possible UK PEs ( HNC to PhD) who are not male and the
    70% of all PEs in the UK who are not ECUK registered in IET or some
    such PEI.



    In fact, what the
    Uff report is about, is a new ECUK registration system, and PEIs
    that look after engineering; not just selective, subjective
    registration. 

    The ECUK does not
    promote subjective registration, it is impossed on ECUK by its
    major PEI (big four) members.



    John Gowman, BA
    MIET

    Ingénieur Chercheur,
    (retired)

    Authorised to carry out
    engineering, research, project management in nuclear installations
    for a an atomic and alternative energy research centre
    .

    I have
    consulted to, and worked with, many of the world's leading
    technologists and very big technology projects. 




  • Former Community Member
    0 Former Community Member in reply to Chris Pearson

    Moshe, 

    In the UK we are
    facing a major crisis, which needs innovative PEs to engineer us
    out of the BREXIT chaos.

    (we need a Trump or
    a Macron to bang a few heads together).

    This PE registration
    fiasco is the result of the UK attitudes to education and
    technology, difficult to understand if you are not in the UK.



    PE registration in
    the UK has to be a UK resident or UK citizen's case, solution
    only.



    Taking present day factual
    statistics:

    • IET was created by
      amalgamation in 2006, the agreements of amalgamation have not been
      respected.

    • IET membership in
      2006 was 150K, ten years on, it is 170K and most of the IEng staff
      and members who are not IT or Electrical have left this PEI. (This
      is nothing to boast about - a failure in my mind)

    • The IET UK PE
      membership is not disclosed, IET is carefull not to publish such
      facts.

    • Today 10% of UK PEs (
      HNC to PhD) are not male.

    • 70% of all PEs in the
      UK are not ECUK registered.

    • The majority of UK
      PEs belong to the four major PE disciplines - IME, ICE, I Chem E
      and IET (now mainly electrical & IT) plus RAE the remaining 45
      or more PEIs have little say at ECUK.

    PEI membership is
    mainly subjective, IET being a prime case (At ITEME we needed
    confirmation of our engineering past not a reference; in France
    references are illegal)

    Subjective means
    that you have to please the PEI recruiters that you are one of the
    "chaps" (an
    expression used against me on this blog").

    From IET blogs, it
    is clear that IET has reverted back to CEng MSc, Electrical &
    IT dominance.



    I am not one of the
    "chaps", I am a PE - with 51years experience and founder member of
    ITEME, campaigning for the non subjective, UK registration of all
    UK PEs who meet UKSpec (HNC, BSc minimum plus training &
    experience); this comprises the missing 90% UK Female PEs and the
    70 UK PEs all disciplines and genders confounded.

    I undrstood that the
    Uff report suggested the same principles - PEs to be registered if
    HNC plus with UK Spec attainment - to be named Professional
    Engineers.



    Since seeing these
    blogs a year ago, I have forced the hand of IET to accept that
    IEng can be
    EurIng
    , That the French LN be reorganised and no longer
    IEE CEng Electrical (IET-LN France is illegal due to French
    Revolution laws), I have provoked discussion on IEng CEng status
    and I have set the example by retiring from ECUK after my last work
    contract.



    I have also noted
    that there is little interest in engineering that is not IT at IET.
    Just look at the Engineering Communities blogs.

    I have posted
    comments and information on future power on the Eng. Com. blogs, on
    average only three people have even opened the blog page (3/170K)
    probably by error. Just type my name on Eng Com Search to see the
    poor interest in any form of engineering at IET.



    We are in an age
    (already passed) of commodification of diplomas and PE
    registration, but IET is not a commercial enterprise, or is
    it? 

    IET can now survive
    without its members participation because as an enterprise, the
    members have to stay, to be UK CEng or IEng
    - they will be
    banned from engineering posts otherwise.

    We are selling CEng
    and MIET just as universities are selling diplomas for
    profit. 

    Just as the church
    or other religions sold indulgences, see M Luther or the Pilgrim
    fathers.



    You need CEng
    because CEng advertise the posts with CEng only (I resolved the
    Fusion CEng problem by confronting the Chief Engineer face to face,
    IET has just failed to
    support me
    even though CCFE refused to recruit MIET
    CEng) 

    CCFE has just placed
    another job offer (before it was CEng ) now they call for an
    experienced professional engineer HNC or BSc. It pays to
    stand up and complain.



    I understand that
    the people who use this blog want to protect what they have gained
    by hard work.

    In the UK it was,
    who you know, that
    counted and any old diploma afterwards.



    I do not see the big
    five supporting the Uff recomendations, but I do see the revision
    of UK engineering education and training, and eventual PE non
    subjective registration. It is for the younger generation to stand
    up for their just rights.



    There is one hell of
    a lot of corruption and underhand dealings involved in engineering,
    as it is the world's leading market; there are those that want to
    see engineers commodified. Unfortunately I have been involved with
    major companies that treat engineers as articles that they discard
    as soon as their utility has expired.



    I am sure that there
    will be some MIETs, who are well past their sell by date, that will
    moan and use their inside influences to ban me again, but the mass
    of PEs that want equality and recognition will eventually
    win.



    Engineering is fun,
    engineering is dangerous, that is why it has to be carefully
    managed and guided by PEIs.

    We have to recruit
    the 90% of possible UK PEs ( HNC to PhD) who are not male and the
    70% of all PEs in the UK who are not ECUK registered in IET or some
    such PEI.



    In fact, what the
    Uff report is about, is a new ECUK registration system, and PEIs
    that look after engineering; not just selective, subjective
    registration. 

    The ECUK does not
    promote subjective registration, it is impossed on ECUK by its
    major PEI (big four) members.



    John Gowman, BA
    MIET

    Ingénieur Chercheur,
    (retired)

    Authorised to carry out
    engineering, research, project management in nuclear installations
    for a an atomic and alternative energy research centre
    .

    I have
    consulted to, and worked with, many of the world's leading
    technologists and very big technology projects. 





  • Scott Williams:

    [...]The government should subsidise at least some of the cost of accredited courses that lead to jobs in sectors where there is high demand and low supply of employees (such as the power sector) since this not only encourages more people to work within the sector but also broadens the spectrum of knowledge for young engineers like myself and provides more job prospects for the future, giving a companies a larger choice of young engineers with a wider variety of industries in which they are knowledgeable.




    Hi Scott,


    Only just picked this point up - very interesting. Wouldn't the government argue that if there is a shortage of graduates for private sector jobs then the government doesn't need to subsidise the courses - either the higher salaries these jobs will carry will amply repay the loans the students have to take out to pay for the courses, or employers should pay the cost of vocational courses directly? I'm not saying I personally agree (or don't agree) with this point of view, but if I've understood it right it is the UK government position. The argument goes that if companies aren't willing to cover the cost, either directly or through recompensing through the pay packet, then they didn't really need those staff in the first place.


    It's the fundamental principle of the free market economy - which this country has chosen as its preferred method of government for nearly 40 years now - that if there's a need then individuals and companies will be prepared to pay for it, if they won't pay for it then there isn't a need. (Again I won't get drawn into a discussion here as to whether that's "right" or "wrong", but at present it is what it is.)


    I do also think the issue of supporting young people into engineering industries goes wider than that, where industry sectors have a low intake they do need to take responsibility for providing post-graduate (or undergraduate) training, and also engaging in schools etc to inform young people that there are worthwhile career paths there - which, to be fair, many companies and organisations are trying to do.


    I do appreciate your frustration...but in the UK at the moment I think you're more likely to be succesful targeting industry bodies to support training and education rather than the government, which has sort of brought us back to the thread!


    Cheers, Andy