Low Voltage Live Testing Training

Hello Barry,

I think that if you are asking electricians if they work live, then you will get the answer that you have had.

Live working is very, very, very difficult to justify and undertake.
Why would you, why would you expect anyone to disk their lives for a buck?

However, if you asked them about live testing, I honestly suspect that you would get a different answer.

Live testing is not, and I have been told this by a senior person in the HSE, not illegal and banned, and, is not live working.

It has to be done safely, yes, it has to have suitable and sufficient risk assessments, and suitable and sufficient method statements and work procedures, but, it is doable.


As far as training goes for specific live testing, on your product, then it could be done I would suspect, but it might be a bespoke course, and would overlap into a procedural audit and assessment of methodologies and equipment I suspect.
There are people out there that could help you with this, and I might be able to point you in the right direction, please PM if you want further guidance in case it is a breach of rules here.

 

Paul

I think it will be best if the details of working on live equipment is spelt out. Define the equipment and the work that is necessary to work on. Evaluation on the safety of that particular work is to be assessed. Only then we can decide whether it is safe to work on and what precautionary and  protective measures must be taken.


A training for that specific work can be made by qualified professional.


Regards

Chris Chew

During my City and Guilds Radio, Television and Electronics Servicing (RTE 1& 2) back in the mid 70s we were taught to work on live TV chassis', the basic rule was to keep one hand in your pocket (so any shock didn't go across your heart) and to try and avoid the "greatest" hazard which would be the harm done to your hand by the recoil reaction damaging your hand on the metal chassis if you did get a shock.


I did once get a final anode shock of circa 24,000V, it felt like someone had just whacked me across the head with a railway sleeper. 


I am sure this is of no help today, sorry.

Thank you everyone for your help so far. It has given me a bit more direction for what I may need.

 

I think I may have been asking the wrong question then. I am up to speed on the relevant regulations, and trust me I have made huge improvements to the way things have been done in the past, but I am just a technician. I am not anything to do with our policy writing, procedure writing, or health and safety. All I can do is point out issues and try and make recommendations for improvements. But it is getting people trained to a standard that I am struggling with. If I can’t find the correct training, then there will be no training according to my manager, who I am struggling to get on side with this.


The times where it is often unreasonable is when manufacturing a £10,000 washing machine (for example only, I genuinely can’t say what we do make that needs 110V) and the PCB with the 110V AC to 12V DC converter is not working. We only build enough PCBs for the job which may be as little as 2 as we can’t afford to keep £500 boards in stock. The board needs repaired as a new one may take 16 weeks for all the parts to populate it to come in. If we wait 16 weeks the customer who ordered their £10,000 ‘washing machine’ has to wait 16 weeks, and they are not likely to return for another repeat order along with other products worth £100,000’s. It is at this point where we have in the past needed to test the voltages around a PCB which would have been live testing. But up to a few years ago ignorance was bliss and no one was aware of the regulations.


My main problem is getting technicians who work with 5V, 12V and 24V DC day to day on our standard products (underwater cameras), safely working with dangerous voltages. I need them to be able to see the dangers and be aware of what they should be doing to protect themselves. If it is making what would be a live test into a safe test with barriers to IP2X so be it. But I still need to find training for them to understand this. If I just give them a copy of the regulations or spout them off to them they are either not going to listen or understand. The second biggest problem is then making sure they are competent to work with electricity which may be harder. We have had new technicians come in who are not up to speed on electricity, let alone working with it safely.


I suppose the two points on training now are:

1. Are there any training courses out there that covers making electrical goods or systems safe before testing that someone can recommend? If it covers what must all be done to be practically safe as covered in all the HSE guidelines, all the better.

• As a lot of the HSE guidelines and IET wiring regulations talk about the person working on a job being electrically competent, what training is recommended to achieve this? Bearing in mind that the level needed is not that of an electrician, so the usual courses they do would not suit in this case.

 

Still any advice on this, or am I still looking at this wrong?

Hi Barry,


The training that you are looking for unfortunately can only be delivered by someone who knows exactly the scope of work you need.


Understanding the functions of the  equipment to work on and the detail working of all components is a daunting task for some one to trouble shoot and rectify the problem.


To train such a  person may take years. Therefore any formal training courses can be address of aspects of the work requirements.


Regards

Chris Chew

Hi Barry,


I Think I understand your issue a bit better now. This is a difficult one for you because you are asking technicians to work outside thier scope of knowledge and experience. I would suggest that for testing/working on hazardous voltages that these tasks are better suited to more qualified electrically trained technicians. I'm not sure if an electrical awareness training course would be deemed suitable. You still need to decide on the risks involved and if the people completing the task have the competency required (as you said). Would an electrical awareness course provide the required knowledge for your task and reduce that risk to an acceptable level?


In the matter of competence, competency is task related, therefore the expected task(s) needs to be understood before a person could be considered competent to complete it. However, it takes a measure of Attitude, Skills, Knowledge and Qualification. Question yourself in each of these areas what you deem would be suitable to reduce any risk introduced by the task to an acceptable level.


For example, I would consider an electrical technician to have a professional attitude,  prepared to Listen, prepared to know when to stop and ask for help. Skills wise, I would expect them to be electrically trained. Knowledge, could be as simple as where to go and seek information and seek advice. Qualification would be Minimum Level 2/3 City& Guilds Electrical / NVQ2/3 and Preferred 17^th Edition. These would be my thoughts on acceptable attributes for generic electrical tasks, to supplement this further for a specific task they may need more i.e.

• The Information about the task and work to be done

• Clear Instructions

• Appropriate level of supervision (where needed)

• Technical support if required and knowledge of how to get it (this applies at all levels i.e. from access to standards to technical information and support to technicians when needed)

• Authorisations and limitations of work are made clear (enablement)

• Experience in the role

• Required Training and updating skills and knowledge on a regular basis.- maintaining knowledge

So to summarise, I would try determine the risk incurred by your task and what level of Attitude, Skills, Knowledge and Qualification you need to reduce the risk (would electrical awareness be sufficient? Answering these questions would give you the required training. Then focus on the task itself. Have you sufficient information on what is required, have you given clear instructions and scope (document this), do they have appropriate supervision and technical support should they need to ask for help, Have you made clear what they can and cannot do (work dead as much as possible, put additional controls in place when live testing has to take place, use approved equipment etc.). Arrange regular refresher training sessions (ass required) and audit their work.


Document your assessment and requirements. If you explain it all afterwards to your manager it will help him understand the effort and thought you have put behind making sure you all work in a safe environment and that work is completed in a safe and efficient manner.


Regards, Gareth.

 

Gareth,

I am going to have to disagree with you with regard to the electronic repair technicians working on circuit boards for machinery needing a qualification in BS7671, it is totally irrelevant to what they are doing.


Much of the rest of your post is valuable, but, what is the point in these people studying the requirements for wiring fixed installations in buildings under BS7671 etc. and the associated qualifications when the only thing that relates to what they do is safe isolation, and the rest bears no resemblence to what they are doing?


Sorry, but, I just can't see the point in fixed wiring installation training for an electronics repair technician, and that is from someone who is qualified and experieinced in doing, both, implementing safe systems of work for both, and supporting both from many aspects, they are extremely different skil sets, and approaches.

Hi Paul,


Sorry thats my poor explanation. I absolutely agree with you. I was trying to highlight what I believe are the requirements for an electrical technician with regards to Attitude, Skills, Knowledge and Qualification, not an electronic repair technician  (as I tried to say in my summary). What I was trying to say to Barry, is he needs to work out what Attitude, Skills, Knowledge and Qualification would be required for the job/task he requires. By trying to identify his own requirements, I would hope he could identify the necessary training. If he understands the job/task and the risks, then looks at some electrical awareness training courses he may find they have enough content for them to understand the risk and give them the necessary Skills and Knowledge with working with hazardous voltages.. He still might have to engage a training company to provide specific training for his needs, they too would have to understand the job/task in order to satisfy his training needs. However, I also tried to say that training is only part of it as he will still need to provide support, instructions and limitations (what they can and cannot do) enough to mitigate any risk.


I'm still not sure I've explained it well enough!!

regards, Gareth.