This might come across as a very strange question but is it uncommon to find engineers who did not enjoy school or think highly of the schools that they attended? I have encountered numerous computing and IT types over the years who did not enjoy school or had bad experiences at school but very few electrical or mechanical engineers.
I think we're agreeing there that in engineering you do need to consider societal impact? Perhaps I wasn't clear, I could have said you can carry out engineering without considering it but you really shouldn't! So I yes, I very much agree with your example. Also, there are many many examples of engineers developing whizzy devices and then being completely bemused (and sometimes very angry) that no-one wants them - because the engineers in question hadn't considered the social context. The early posts in this thread very much made me think of that. I remember buying an Amstrad PCW9512, and my some of my IT-savvy colleagues being extremely rude about it - missing the point that at the time (1990ish?) it was about the only way most people could buy a computer which actually reliably worked with a printer and with a word processor that was roughly WYSIWYG. Amstrad didn't set out to produce technically the best computer, but were very clever in producing one that pretty much exactly met the customer needs.
Also, as a separate point (I was replying to Ian very quickly as I was working at the same time so I didn't go into this) I didn't mention that - given the context of this thread - in "societal impact" I'm including interaction with other parts of the organisation employing the engineer, and its customers, suppliers etc as well as wider society.
So yes engineers can work in a bubble ignoring all human needs of those they will interact with - I've dealt with a few IT support engineers like that over the years - but I wouldn't recommend it. And, to risk labouring the point, as you suggest it leads to bad engineering (in the wider context).
That'll teach me to try to avoid a boring piece of work by posting a too-quick message here
Interesting programme on BBC Radio 4 yesterday trying to compare and contrast the introduction of mainline railways with the introduction of autonomous vehicles. Taking the parallels of the death of William Huskisson at the opening of the Liverpool and Manchester in 1830 with last month's death of Elaine Herzberg. If you get a chance to listen to it Alasdair I'd be interested in your view. I got a bit cross with the autonomous vehicle people, but I guess they need to try to be reassuring. Personally I'd have found it more reassuring if they'd admitted how bloomin' difficult it's going to be - but maybe that comes with my job! http://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/b09z4jxw#play
Right, off for a very quick play in the sunshine then back to the day job...absolutely mustn't let myself get distracted this time...
I think we're agreeing there that in engineering you do need to consider societal impact? Perhaps I wasn't clear, I could have said you can carry out engineering without considering it but you really shouldn't! So I yes, I very much agree with your example. Also, there are many many examples of engineers developing whizzy devices and then being completely bemused (and sometimes very angry) that no-one wants them - because the engineers in question hadn't considered the social context. The early posts in this thread very much made me think of that. I remember buying an Amstrad PCW9512, and my some of my IT-savvy colleagues being extremely rude about it - missing the point that at the time (1990ish?) it was about the only way most people could buy a computer which actually reliably worked with a printer and with a word processor that was roughly WYSIWYG. Amstrad didn't set out to produce technically the best computer, but were very clever in producing one that pretty much exactly met the customer needs.
Also, as a separate point (I was replying to Ian very quickly as I was working at the same time so I didn't go into this) I didn't mention that - given the context of this thread - in "societal impact" I'm including interaction with other parts of the organisation employing the engineer, and its customers, suppliers etc as well as wider society.
So yes engineers can work in a bubble ignoring all human needs of those they will interact with - I've dealt with a few IT support engineers like that over the years - but I wouldn't recommend it. And, to risk labouring the point, as you suggest it leads to bad engineering (in the wider context).
That'll teach me to try to avoid a boring piece of work by posting a too-quick message here
Interesting programme on BBC Radio 4 yesterday trying to compare and contrast the introduction of mainline railways with the introduction of autonomous vehicles. Taking the parallels of the death of William Huskisson at the opening of the Liverpool and Manchester in 1830 with last month's death of Elaine Herzberg. If you get a chance to listen to it Alasdair I'd be interested in your view. I got a bit cross with the autonomous vehicle people, but I guess they need to try to be reassuring. Personally I'd have found it more reassuring if they'd admitted how bloomin' difficult it's going to be - but maybe that comes with my job! http://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/b09z4jxw#play
Right, off for a very quick play in the sunshine then back to the day job...absolutely mustn't let myself get distracted this time...
