Engineers who did not enjoy school - are they rare?

Andy Millar:

KS3 is a difficult time, it really is that transition you sort of mention from the fun and random inquiry of KS2 to the serious exam time of KS4. I do agree that this is where schools could (given the resources) put more effort into a) transitioning to adult social skills (they do try) and b) learning how to learn. I suspect many teachers would agree with me here. Really proactive headteachers do manage to achieve this in the KS3 curriculum.

KS3 is secondary school age and secondary schools do not teach social skills because it does not fit into the National Curriculum. The timetabled lessons are all academic subjects. The closest is a subject called PHSE but really it's quite naff and predominantly focuses on contemporary teenage issues like drugs and relationships rather than social skills for life as an adult or life skills. I have encountered many parents who criticise secondary school for being too academic and therefore letting down children who come from dysfunctional families who are not in a good position to teach life skills and social skills to their children so even if they get good GCSE grades they are likely to leave school unprepared for life in the real world at an age where next to no help is available.


An interesting story that has stuck in my mind came from the mother of a child with Asperger syndrome who attended a middle school. She really praised the first / middle / high school system that operated in her local authority because middle schools have the resources of secondary schools and the more homely environment of primary schools so they are in a better position to support children with certain types of SEN than secondary schools are at KS3. The jump from first to middle then middle to high school is gentler than the jump from primary to secondary school, and 10 to 12 are usually the most difficult age for children with Asperger syndrome when it comes to school and relationship with their peer group. She said it was sad that governments since the 1980s had tried to eliminate middle schools in favour of primary and secondary schools and how they fail to even realise that difficulties children face at school, both academic and social, could be exacerbated by the structure and organisation of the primary and secondary school system.

Incidentally, I was chatting to someone recently who was training experienced engineers, who had one class with a group who again claimed they "knew it already" and "this is too slow". Sadly that same group also failed the end of course test rather spectacularly (and he was making the point that he'd seen this happen again and again). So it's not just school children who sometimes incorrectly misjudge their abilities! A minor case of the Dunning-Kruger effect. Of course this isn't always the case, I didn't ever have a problem in school with finding lessons too slow (I would just read ahead in the textbook if the teacher was helping other people in the class) but I have had various training course - particularly repeat health and safety for certification - where sometimes the tutor is not, shall we say, sensitive to the groups needs. But my attitude is that learning to cope with such issues is part of Life - and put a constructive comment on the course review form!.

What you are referring to is exam technique. The truth is that students do not have to be geniuses, or even particularly clever, to get top grades in GCSE and A Level exams but what is essential is good exam technique. Large numbers of high ability students jeopardise grades because of poor exam technique. It's quite common for schools - even in recent years - to fail to go over past exam papers with their marking schemes or even make them available to students. A tutor told me all about this and how he spent more time with exam technique than with the course curriculum. He also said that many independent schools are very hot on teaching exam technique and it is the secret how they get better results than state schools which tend to just focus on teaching the course curriculum. Smart state school students download the past exam papers and their mark schemes from the exam board websites.

Andy Millar:

KS3 is a difficult time, it really is that transition you sort of mention from the fun and random inquiry of KS2 to the serious exam time of KS4. I do agree that this is where schools could (given the resources) put more effort into a) transitioning to adult social skills (they do try) and b) learning how to learn. I suspect many teachers would agree with me here. Really proactive headteachers do manage to achieve this in the KS3 curriculum.

KS3 is secondary school age and secondary schools do not teach social skills because it does not fit into the National Curriculum. The timetabled lessons are all academic subjects. The closest is a subject called PHSE but really it's quite naff and predominantly focuses on contemporary teenage issues like drugs and relationships rather than social skills for life as an adult or life skills. I have encountered many parents who criticise secondary school for being too academic and therefore letting down children who come from dysfunctional families who are not in a good position to teach life skills and social skills to their children so even if they get good GCSE grades they are likely to leave school unprepared for life in the real world at an age where next to no help is available.


An interesting story that has stuck in my mind came from the mother of a child with Asperger syndrome who attended a middle school. She really praised the first / middle / high school system that operated in her local authority because middle schools have the resources of secondary schools and the more homely environment of primary schools so they are in a better position to support children with certain types of SEN than secondary schools are at KS3. The jump from first to middle then middle to high school is gentler than the jump from primary to secondary school, and 10 to 12 are usually the most difficult age for children with Asperger syndrome when it comes to school and relationship with their peer group. She said it was sad that governments since the 1980s had tried to eliminate middle schools in favour of primary and secondary schools and how they fail to even realise that difficulties children face at school, both academic and social, could be exacerbated by the structure and organisation of the primary and secondary school system.

Incidentally, I was chatting to someone recently who was training experienced engineers, who had one class with a group who again claimed they "knew it already" and "this is too slow". Sadly that same group also failed the end of course test rather spectacularly (and he was making the point that he'd seen this happen again and again). So it's not just school children who sometimes incorrectly misjudge their abilities! A minor case of the Dunning-Kruger effect. Of course this isn't always the case, I didn't ever have a problem in school with finding lessons too slow (I would just read ahead in the textbook if the teacher was helping other people in the class) but I have had various training course - particularly repeat health and safety for certification - where sometimes the tutor is not, shall we say, sensitive to the groups needs. But my attitude is that learning to cope with such issues is part of Life - and put a constructive comment on the course review form!.

What you are referring to is exam technique. The truth is that students do not have to be geniuses, or even particularly clever, to get top grades in GCSE and A Level exams but what is essential is good exam technique. Large numbers of high ability students jeopardise grades because of poor exam technique. It's quite common for schools - even in recent years - to fail to go over past exam papers with their marking schemes or even make them available to students. A tutor told me all about this and how he spent more time with exam technique than with the course curriculum. He also said that many independent schools are very hot on teaching exam technique and it is the secret how they get better results than state schools which tend to just focus on teaching the course curriculum. Smart state school students download the past exam papers and their mark schemes from the exam board websites.