Engineers who did not enjoy school - are they rare?

Alasdair Anderson:

Arran,

Very good point, but as Andy said in a different post, it is actually more complicated than that. I agree that the home environment makes a difference, but I would like to chip in with some personal experience. My daughter was at the local primary school and, as my wife and I were both working, was then picked up by a childminder who looked after her until one of us was able to get home to pick her up. There was also a nearby boarding school and the fees for having her as a Day Boarder (i.e. attending potentially from 7a.m. to 7p.m. and doing her homework in the school with help from teachers) was no more expensive than the childminder. When she was old enough to start there (Year 3) we therefore moved her there, gaining fantastic school facilities such as swimming pool, horse riding and a vast range of sports in the process, but we noticed within a year that her confidence and social skills had blossomed, far more than just one year older could explain. The home environment had not changed. so that only leaves the school environment to explain the boost.

I can well believe that. People are shaped by the people who they associate with. Children who associate with people with good social skills and high moral standards tend to acquire them - as long as they meet a minimum standard to start with and the social gap between them and their peers is not too large as to cause potential incompatibilities such as coming from a dysfunctional family, clashes of culture, or unusual psychological conditions like Asperger syndrome. Children who associate with riff-raff almost always end up as riff-raff themselves.


Large numbers of parents want their children to attend private schools, not because the quality of the academic education is any higher or the facilities for activities are better than at state schools, but in order that they mix with kids from decent families and not riff-raff. 


A bit like if you work in a perfumery you end up smelling of perfume but if you work in a forge you end up smelling of smoke.

By the way, I am curious about children holding sufficient knowledge about types of wine that you mention in your final paragraph. Is this something you feel should be taught in state schools?

To help differentiate between children who come from higher socioeconomic group families and which children are clever but uncultured council estate kids who ace the maths and English entrance exams!


Some home educating parents (even from poorer or lower class backgrounds) I have met have mentioned that it's a good idea for their children to learn cultural stuff often known by families from higher class backgrounds and a bit of Latin as it will help them with career development by making them appear to come from a higher class background than they actually do. Social class is more a case of culture and attitudes than your family's background or financial status. I think successive governments have failed to notice this when carrying out educational reforms. Academics aren't everything and social skills do include knowing which wine to pair with which food. 


BTW I don't drink wine or know much about it. 

Alasdair Anderson:

Arran,

Very good point, but as Andy said in a different post, it is actually more complicated than that. I agree that the home environment makes a difference, but I would like to chip in with some personal experience. My daughter was at the local primary school and, as my wife and I were both working, was then picked up by a childminder who looked after her until one of us was able to get home to pick her up. There was also a nearby boarding school and the fees for having her as a Day Boarder (i.e. attending potentially from 7a.m. to 7p.m. and doing her homework in the school with help from teachers) was no more expensive than the childminder. When she was old enough to start there (Year 3) we therefore moved her there, gaining fantastic school facilities such as swimming pool, horse riding and a vast range of sports in the process, but we noticed within a year that her confidence and social skills had blossomed, far more than just one year older could explain. The home environment had not changed. so that only leaves the school environment to explain the boost.

I can well believe that. People are shaped by the people who they associate with. Children who associate with people with good social skills and high moral standards tend to acquire them - as long as they meet a minimum standard to start with and the social gap between them and their peers is not too large as to cause potential incompatibilities such as coming from a dysfunctional family, clashes of culture, or unusual psychological conditions like Asperger syndrome. Children who associate with riff-raff almost always end up as riff-raff themselves.


Large numbers of parents want their children to attend private schools, not because the quality of the academic education is any higher or the facilities for activities are better than at state schools, but in order that they mix with kids from decent families and not riff-raff. 


A bit like if you work in a perfumery you end up smelling of perfume but if you work in a forge you end up smelling of smoke.

By the way, I am curious about children holding sufficient knowledge about types of wine that you mention in your final paragraph. Is this something you feel should be taught in state schools?

To help differentiate between children who come from higher socioeconomic group families and which children are clever but uncultured council estate kids who ace the maths and English entrance exams!


Some home educating parents (even from poorer or lower class backgrounds) I have met have mentioned that it's a good idea for their children to learn cultural stuff often known by families from higher class backgrounds and a bit of Latin as it will help them with career development by making them appear to come from a higher class background than they actually do. Social class is more a case of culture and attitudes than your family's background or financial status. I think successive governments have failed to notice this when carrying out educational reforms. Academics aren't everything and social skills do include knowing which wine to pair with which food. 


BTW I don't drink wine or know much about it.