Hi Roy, Just to be fair to Simon, I suspect it was the phrase (and please do take this in context of your complete post) "I don't think there can be much doubt that..." that acted as the "trigger" here, I had a similar reaction to Simon when I read it: many of us do have very serious doubts (not certainties) about there being any potential benefit of licensing engineers, certainly (if a caveat would help) in terms of whether any benefit will outweigh any disadvantages. Anyway, let's keep gathering the facts for and against.


I do strongly agree with Simon's point that most people I have seen raise this issue do so in the belief that it will benefit them financially (by the way, personally I don't think it will, but I've explained that several times elsewhere so I'm not going to again now!), but I think Roy's post's are very clear that this is not the point from which he is arguing. Like SImon I get hugely frustrated when people say "I'm only raising it for the public good / the good of the profession" when actually they are after their own ends.


It is a very complex issue - for a start, what do we mean by "engineering"? - and certainly for myself I am not aware of anything like enough evidence to draw any conclusions yet.


One point I will throw in quickly before getting back to work: As a manager and assessor of safety critical projects for nigh on 25 years now I have never had a problem where engineers have misrepresented themselves which has led to a safety risk. I have had plenty of issues with engineers who have good evidence of competence making mistakes (I've done it myself), but that's why we have structures such as IEC 61508 and (in my field) EN 50126 to work in to guard against this - and, incidentally, to manage engineers' competence. So this is why I tend not to see it us our biggest problem. I'm much more concerned about unqualified managers - that's where I have seen engineering disasters most nearly occur! But. as I say, I'm always open to new evidence - the fact that I work in a highly safety-critical field may distort my view of the issue. (I'm aware that there is more to licensing than checking of qualifications, I just wanted to pick this one point for now.)


Thanks,


Andy

Hi Roy, Just to be fair to Simon, I suspect it was the phrase (and please do take this in context of your complete post) "I don't think there can be much doubt that..." that acted as the "trigger" here, I had a similar reaction to Simon when I read it: many of us do have very serious doubts (not certainties) about there being any potential benefit of licensing engineers, certainly (if a caveat would help) in terms of whether any benefit will outweigh any disadvantages. Anyway, let's keep gathering the facts for and against.


I do strongly agree with Simon's point that most people I have seen raise this issue do so in the belief that it will benefit them financially (by the way, personally I don't think it will, but I've explained that several times elsewhere so I'm not going to again now!), but I think Roy's post's are very clear that this is not the point from which he is arguing. Like SImon I get hugely frustrated when people say "I'm only raising it for the public good / the good of the profession" when actually they are after their own ends.


It is a very complex issue - for a start, what do we mean by "engineering"? - and certainly for myself I am not aware of anything like enough evidence to draw any conclusions yet.


One point I will throw in quickly before getting back to work: As a manager and assessor of safety critical projects for nigh on 25 years now I have never had a problem where engineers have misrepresented themselves which has led to a safety risk. I have had plenty of issues with engineers who have good evidence of competence making mistakes (I've done it myself), but that's why we have structures such as IEC 61508 and (in my field) EN 50126 to work in to guard against this - and, incidentally, to manage engineers' competence. So this is why I tend not to see it us our biggest problem. I'm much more concerned about unqualified managers - that's where I have seen engineering disasters most nearly occur! But. as I say, I'm always open to new evidence - the fact that I work in a highly safety-critical field may distort my view of the issue. (I'm aware that there is more to licensing than checking of qualifications, I just wanted to pick this one point for now.)


Thanks,


Andy