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Incorporated Engineer (IEng) UK vs Engineering Technologist (ET) Pakistan

Nouman Abid Chuhan
Hi / Assalam u Alaikum


I am registered with the EC as Incorporated Engineer (IEng) through the IET UK.  Now i am very pleased to inform all of you that i am also registered with the National Technology Council (NTC) www.ntc-hec.org.pk Pakistan as Professional Engineering Technologist (PE.Tech).


Four Years B.Tech-Hons or BS Tech or BSc Engineering Technology Degrees (attested by the Higher Education Commission - HEC) are the primary requirement to get register with the NTC Pakistan as the Engineering Technologist.  On the other hand, EC UK requires two years HND or three years Bachelors Engineering or Technology Degree for the title of Incorporated Engineer (IEng).


I would suggest that the EC UK should also upgrade the eligibility criteria for IEng as four years degree and change the title from IEng to Chartered Engineering Technologist (CET).  Its my point of view.  The Standards of other countries may also be compared other than Pakistan in this context.


Thank you.

  • Former Community Member
    0 Former Community Member
    As I remember that the requirements for IEng is 3-year BEng and CEng is 4-year MEng.....

    There is no 4-year BEng in UK......

    HND is for EngTech as I recall........
  • 0

    Moshe Waserman:

    In the UK there are 4 year BEng degrees they are called BEng (Hons).

    So all Hons degrees are an additional 4th year.  Usually, these are the type of degrees that in the USA will be accepted into Masters degree programs.


    But sometimes a 3 year BEng is accepted as well.  It depends on all overall credit evaluation, some BEng graduates also hold A levels that translate in the US into academic credit, so 4 GCE A-levels can add 12 to 18 semester depends on the university policy. I know Cambridge A levels are highly valued.


     Moshe M Waserman BEET (Hons), MCGI, CEng MBCS, MIET

     




    You don't have this quite right Moshe, Cheong is correct. In the UK all BEng degrees are honours and they are 3 years (except in Scotland, where they are 4 years in common with all bachelors degrees in Scotland). It is not true that all Hons degrees are an additional 4th year. Also the Cambridge A Levels are international qualifications so wouldn't normally apply to UK students.

  • 0
    UK's 3 years BEng is not an Honours Degree but Pass Degree, as per my information.


    Any comment about my suggestion of Chartered Engineering Technologist to 4 years MEng or BEng Hons or BTech Hons.
  • 0
    Nouman,  


    As I’m sure you are aware there were some efforts 15+ years ago to establish the designation Chartered Engineering Technologist in the UK. There is a section in Andrew Ramsay’s history of IEng. I wasn’t involved in that, but I did in response to a consultation write to the IIE CEO stating that I thought it was worth exploring further. I was a manager in a business which at the time was only operating in the UK, so the international aspect wasn’t in my mind. The reasons for failure were probably a combination of IEng feeling strongly “I am an Engineer” and CEng concerned that it would dilute their role as the Chartered professional’s in engineering, or at least create confusion.  I think subsequent developments once IIE left the stage unpicking the “different but equally valuable” policy, illustrates the feelings of many CEngs who considered the concept of “equality” to be unjustified.     


    As I see it now; The International Engineering Alliance established to recognise the comparability of academic qualifications developed the Washington Accord, which defines the ideal requirements of an "Engineer’s degree". An “ideal” can easily be turned into a “minimum requirement” by those who choose to do so. It doesn’t however deal with what Engineers actually do during the rest of their careers, it merely establishes an academic measure at the age of approximately 22, of a “well-prepared” graduate.


    Because the Washington Accord model didn’t include the many valid degree programmes that prioritise “how engineering is carried out” rather than “understanding in depth the science that underpins engineering”,  those countries that wanted some recognition for such programmes, engaged in The Sydney Accord. The designation “Technologist” was adopted to describe the holders of these degrees.


    Some countries have adopted International Engineering Alliance definitions into regulatory frameworks, turning “ideals” into “minimum requirements” and presuming those prepared in other ways to be "not competent" or "deficient" in some respect. Once bureaucrats are involved this can be woven into rules with significant impact of people’s lives like social status, career opportunities and migration. This of course brings public administrators and legal professionals into the frame.  An advantage of the UK voluntary system is a reduction in such red-tape and those not familiar with the Engineering Council “family” of PEI’s perhaps don’t realise that most of this is supported by volunteers, working “pro bono”. Employers can generally employ who they wish, although they are liable for the consequences, so need to exercise due diligence. Self-employed people have to carry insurance against such consequences.


    Turning to your situation Nouman, you seem to be experienced, well-qualified and proven as a Professional Engineer to IEng standard. Therefore, if you were able to show that your additional achievements since you were awarded IEng, illustrate the competences expected of CEng, then you could ask to transfer. If you feel that being a Technologist meets your needs perfectly well and you feel a sense pride in it, that that is great.  We do have some Chartered Technologists in the UK, who I’m confident are fully respected within their niche peer groups, but for most people Engineer and Technologist are just synonyms, the latter perhaps hints at an association with information technology for some younger people, but it doesn’t really matter. A former colleague had a BET from "Loughborough University of Technology" gained in the early 1970s which would have been considered to be a "top-class" degree, equivalent to MEng now.    

    I don’t think that the number of years over which a degree programme is conducted helps us very much, if at all. Unfortunately on this occasion Moshe I found your explanation rather confusing. Others addressed this, so the paragraph I that wrote below is partly redundant  


    Most undergraduate degrees in the UK are taken over 3 years as a full-time student or 4 years in Scotland because they typically transfer from school to university earlier. An MEng (or other “integrated masters”) is an enhanced undergraduate degree, which is usually more selective and takes an additional years. Both types may include a one-year work placement thus extending the duration. Separate 1 year Masters courses are particularly popular with overseas students.  Some universities offer part-time or distance study modes which may be longer and some have shorter durations through more intensive study patterns or in a recent innovative example blending work-based learning opportunities.  Full-time Bachelor Degrees for example are usually (Hons) unless you fail something.   


    I wish those who find themselves in a system defining them as “Technologists” every success. I’m not aware that this would cause them any disadvantage in respect of their IET membership. I am aware that in some countries they may encounter either formal or informal disadvantage relative to those designated as “Engineers”. This may be similar to the long-running “IEng problem” in a UK context, which has been so extensively discussed in these forums.                

                 

  • 0

    Nouman Abid Chuhan:

    On the other hand, EC UK requires two years HND or three years Bachelors Engineering or Technology Degree for the title of Incorporated Engineer (IEng).




    You can't get IEng with HND, you need BEng Honours, a 3 year degree.

     



    Nouman Abid Chuhan:

    UK's 3 years BEng is not an Honours Degree but Pass Degree, as per my information.


    No, it's an honours degree, unless, as Roy said, you fail something.
  • 0
    Its complicated!  We don’t require anything. The main benchmark is a Bachelors Degree. Universities offer Honours Degrees to full-time undergraduate students, but someone studying part-time or by distance learning may accumulate enough module credits for a BSc without the Honours, without failing anything. 

  • 0
    The NTC Pakistan has set the standard and following the Sydney Accord.


    At Pakistan, Pass and Honours Degrees relate to number of years.  2 years degree after 12 years schooling is Pass Degree and 2 years degree after 2 years Pass Degree is Honours Degree.  Now Pass Degrees are almost terminated, only 4 years Bachelors Hons Degree in each discipline.


    At UK, Honours means Bachelors Degree with out any fail and Pass means with fail.  am i right?
  • 0
    Moshe, I see what you mean. The examples you give are for degrees with a foundation year for those who don't meet the entry requirements - which is what you are referring to. (Dundee is Scotland, so their degrees are 4 years anyway.)
  • 0

    Nouman Abid Chuhan:

    At UK, Honours means Bachelors Degree with out any fail and Pass means with fail.  am i right?



    No, this was just an example. As Roy said, there are other situations when a pass degree may be awarded. 

     

  • 0
    As the EC UK maps its IEng to ET of Sydney Accord, then what is the problem to change the IEng to CET.

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