I will say that this doesn't just apply to female engineers - there is a type of person that rises to senior management by staying in (or making themselves like) their "in crowd" and just doesn't know how to cope with those outside it - or doesn't see those ousiders as useful to furthering their career (hold that thought, I'll come back to it). You see them treating various people in the same way - those from different education, different industries, those who aren't constantly trying to climb the greasy pole, as well as of course those of different sex, race, "class", and even height (seriously - as a male 5'6" I was fascinated by recent research that senior people over 6' often - unconsciously - don't consider short people worth listening to). You often notice that the only junior people they will engage with are junior versions of themselves - whilst at the same time keeping even those people slightly down so their own positions aren't at threat.


BUT as the excellent posts above say, you can cope with this. There is another way by the way, which I absolutely wouldn't recommend but you see people do it - which is to become a female version of them. Not good for yourself long term, or for the business. 


The reason the advice the other posters gave works is because these people act this way having learned that that is how to get on in business (in their particular clique), and their big motivation is to succeed. However they also know very well that their success is through the work of others, they are 100% dependent on the efforts of yourself and your colleagues. So by acting professionally you WILL eventually find yourself in a position where your efforts have helped them succeed, and they WILL know that and respect you for it. 


I have been in this position so many times in my career I have completely lost count. And it's not just senior engineers: sales and marketing people, who work in a very competitive environment, are often much worse.


Find a good role model in your company, a good engineer with strong ethics, and whenever you're in a difficult situation with such managers think "what would xxx do"? Then keep doing your work professionally, and one day (probably in private rather than in front of their peers) one of these managers will come and say "that was a really good piece of work you did" or, even better, "what do you think we should do about yyy?" Then you know you've cracked it! It takes patience, determination, and sometimes knowing that you can't afford to just walk out (never the right thing to do anyway), but you get there in the end and it's really satisfying - and nice - when you do.


Sadly there are very few companies / professions / industries where the majority of people get to the top by being nice to their staff. But there are exceptions - and to finish on a high can I publicise an excellent recent story of four women who got to the top of their profession. One of these, Carolyn Salmon, has now been my manager in two different companies, as someone who is now in the lucky position to more-or-less choose my managers that is most definitely not a coincidence!
https://www.railengineer.uk/2018/12/11/175-years-of-progress/


Cheers,


Andy

I will say that this doesn't just apply to female engineers - there is a type of person that rises to senior management by staying in (or making themselves like) their "in crowd" and just doesn't know how to cope with those outside it - or doesn't see those ousiders as useful to furthering their career (hold that thought, I'll come back to it). You see them treating various people in the same way - those from different education, different industries, those who aren't constantly trying to climb the greasy pole, as well as of course those of different sex, race, "class", and even height (seriously - as a male 5'6" I was fascinated by recent research that senior people over 6' often - unconsciously - don't consider short people worth listening to). You often notice that the only junior people they will engage with are junior versions of themselves - whilst at the same time keeping even those people slightly down so their own positions aren't at threat.


BUT as the excellent posts above say, you can cope with this. There is another way by the way, which I absolutely wouldn't recommend but you see people do it - which is to become a female version of them. Not good for yourself long term, or for the business. 


The reason the advice the other posters gave works is because these people act this way having learned that that is how to get on in business (in their particular clique), and their big motivation is to succeed. However they also know very well that their success is through the work of others, they are 100% dependent on the efforts of yourself and your colleagues. So by acting professionally you WILL eventually find yourself in a position where your efforts have helped them succeed, and they WILL know that and respect you for it. 


I have been in this position so many times in my career I have completely lost count. And it's not just senior engineers: sales and marketing people, who work in a very competitive environment, are often much worse.


Find a good role model in your company, a good engineer with strong ethics, and whenever you're in a difficult situation with such managers think "what would xxx do"? Then keep doing your work professionally, and one day (probably in private rather than in front of their peers) one of these managers will come and say "that was a really good piece of work you did" or, even better, "what do you think we should do about yyy?" Then you know you've cracked it! It takes patience, determination, and sometimes knowing that you can't afford to just walk out (never the right thing to do anyway), but you get there in the end and it's really satisfying - and nice - when you do.


Sadly there are very few companies / professions / industries where the majority of people get to the top by being nice to their staff. But there are exceptions - and to finish on a high can I publicise an excellent recent story of four women who got to the top of their profession. One of these, Carolyn Salmon, has now been my manager in two different companies, as someone who is now in the lucky position to more-or-less choose my managers that is most definitely not a coincidence!
https://www.railengineer.uk/2018/12/11/175-years-of-progress/


Cheers,


Andy