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Where is the IET going?

The IET on Twitter is mostly about women in engineering and it appears we also have or have had an Executive member who represents the Association for Black and Minority Ethnic Engineers (AFBE-UK). Since when did we get away and direct our selves at subsections of the organization? There is no minorities that I am aware of in the IET at least not because of bias in any way shape of form. The same goes for women in engineering, no one is biased against them. Low numbers are because they dont want to be in engineering..

Where is the IET heading? It does not seem to be going in a place most of the member wold probably want or is it?

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0 Roy Bowdler over 5 years ago

I can’t comment on Twitter, since I don’t participate in that platform , although clearly it has become an important medium. I also think that the opinion that Raymond has expressed shouldn’t be suppressed or criticised for reasons of “political correctness”.

The IET is a very large membership organisation, which brings together people with different personal characteristics, to share common interests. There are alternative smaller organisations with a superficially similar purpose who represent a much narrower focus, who attract groups of very specific types people. The IET evolved as an alliance of smaller organisations which themselves evolved from clubs and societies of mainly white British male participants. Their situation could be represented by this 1966 snapshot parodying British social attitudes https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Class_sketch Trades Unionism also has to be part of that mix, especially for the cloth capped character. It is difficult to be precise about when overt racism and sexism became unacceptable, followed eventually by the acceptance of diversity in British society, which the IET as registered charity has to demonstrate and UK law underpins. We can follow no other pathway.

I have found myself very involved in the tensions that exist between those involved in engineering through a more academic pathway and those from a more practical tradition. I tend to side with the latter, although I have a couple of masters degrees done part-time in my thirties. Therefore, I took issue with female colleagues criticising the “hard hat image of engineering” (the phrase “oily rag” has also been used), because it tends to reinforce class and academic based snobbery, which I feel is outdated and has little to do with professional performance. However, I have to recognise that females tend to be more advantaged in and attracted to, engineering conducted as a "thought process" rather than a practical “trade”. This may change as the “more practical” end of the spectrum becomes less “macho” and inherently sexist. However, issues arise for the IT domain, which is inherently conducted intellectually and in “clean conditions”, but is also male dominated.

It is always tempting to “compare and contrast”, often painting others in a negative light compared to ourselves or groups that we affiliate to. Conducted respectfully and without an emotive element, this has to be part of the function of a professional body to debate and discuss. Some of what we do, inherently sets out to value the contribution of some more highly than others which creates an emotive element. Someone who is motivated to join the IET is likely to feel a connection between their professional and personal identity or status. When our actions leave someone feeling successful, this strengthens the bond, but it may leave others feeling resentful or even bitter.

As a former FIIE, I’m particularly sensitive towards those who felt that the IET was at least partly culpable in “downgrading” IEng. However, I also empathise with those Chartered Engineers who feel undervalued for various reasons, perhaps in comparison with other engineers and technicians, or other professions. The largest and most influential “group” of IET members are Chartered Engineers, many drawn from the IEE heritage, including some who are resentful of a loss of identity.

I’m instinctively sympathetic towards AFBE-UK, as I am towards gender equality in the profession. Inappropriate prejudices were at least tolerated if not actively promoted within our profession and we have to make every effort to distance ourselves from that. As someone who has been involved in engineering for 40 + years. I was never a racist, despite mine being an unpopular view at times. Several of my personal heroes were black. However, I certainly participated in a culture of casual sexism and homophobia, which just seemed “normal” at the time. Sometimes denigrating or diminishing perhaps, but not intentionally harmful or hateful. I'm also probably an occasional snob and inverse snob depending on the circumstances - Ronnie Barker I suppose, except that I try to keep a level gaze?.

In my opinion equality and diversity are just part of what the IET should be about. If this is clearly no longer a problem then we should talk about something else, but for the time being it rightly remains a “hot topic”.
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0 Roy Bowdler over 5 years ago

I can’t comment on Twitter, since I don’t participate in that platform , although clearly it has become an important medium. I also think that the opinion that Raymond has expressed shouldn’t be suppressed or criticised for reasons of “political correctness”.

The IET is a very large membership organisation, which brings together people with different personal characteristics, to share common interests. There are alternative smaller organisations with a superficially similar purpose who represent a much narrower focus, who attract groups of very specific types people. The IET evolved as an alliance of smaller organisations which themselves evolved from clubs and societies of mainly white British male participants. Their situation could be represented by this 1966 snapshot parodying British social attitudes https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Class_sketch Trades Unionism also has to be part of that mix, especially for the cloth capped character. It is difficult to be precise about when overt racism and sexism became unacceptable, followed eventually by the acceptance of diversity in British society, which the IET as registered charity has to demonstrate and UK law underpins. We can follow no other pathway.

I have found myself very involved in the tensions that exist between those involved in engineering through a more academic pathway and those from a more practical tradition. I tend to side with the latter, although I have a couple of masters degrees done part-time in my thirties. Therefore, I took issue with female colleagues criticising the “hard hat image of engineering” (the phrase “oily rag” has also been used), because it tends to reinforce class and academic based snobbery, which I feel is outdated and has little to do with professional performance. However, I have to recognise that females tend to be more advantaged in and attracted to, engineering conducted as a "thought process" rather than a practical “trade”. This may change as the “more practical” end of the spectrum becomes less “macho” and inherently sexist. However, issues arise for the IT domain, which is inherently conducted intellectually and in “clean conditions”, but is also male dominated.

It is always tempting to “compare and contrast”, often painting others in a negative light compared to ourselves or groups that we affiliate to. Conducted respectfully and without an emotive element, this has to be part of the function of a professional body to debate and discuss. Some of what we do, inherently sets out to value the contribution of some more highly than others which creates an emotive element. Someone who is motivated to join the IET is likely to feel a connection between their professional and personal identity or status. When our actions leave someone feeling successful, this strengthens the bond, but it may leave others feeling resentful or even bitter.

As a former FIIE, I’m particularly sensitive towards those who felt that the IET was at least partly culpable in “downgrading” IEng. However, I also empathise with those Chartered Engineers who feel undervalued for various reasons, perhaps in comparison with other engineers and technicians, or other professions. The largest and most influential “group” of IET members are Chartered Engineers, many drawn from the IEE heritage, including some who are resentful of a loss of identity.

I’m instinctively sympathetic towards AFBE-UK, as I am towards gender equality in the profession. Inappropriate prejudices were at least tolerated if not actively promoted within our profession and we have to make every effort to distance ourselves from that. As someone who has been involved in engineering for 40 + years. I was never a racist, despite mine being an unpopular view at times. Several of my personal heroes were black. However, I certainly participated in a culture of casual sexism and homophobia, which just seemed “normal” at the time. Sometimes denigrating or diminishing perhaps, but not intentionally harmful or hateful. I'm also probably an occasional snob and inverse snob depending on the circumstances - Ronnie Barker I suppose, except that I try to keep a level gaze?.

In my opinion equality and diversity are just part of what the IET should be about. If this is clearly no longer a problem then we should talk about something else, but for the time being it rightly remains a “hot topic”.
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Where is the IET going?

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