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Where is the IET going?

The IET on Twitter is mostly about women in engineering and it appears we also have or have had an Executive member who represents the Association for Black and Minority Ethnic Engineers (AFBE-UK). Since when did we get away and direct our selves at subsections of the organization? There is no minorities that I am aware of in the IET at least not because of bias in any way shape of form. The same goes for women in engineering, no one is biased against them. Low numbers are because they dont want to be in engineering..

Where is the IET heading? It does not seem to be going in a place most of the member wold probably want or is it?

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0 Roy Bowdler over 6 years ago

John your counterpoint about male representation in Nursing is perfectly valid. I hope that my contribution widened the discussion into all forms of negative stereotyping and cultural bias. Research has shown that the current education system which prepares people for engineering career is disadvantaging young “White British” and “Black British” males from lower social classes the most. When I worked in Glasgow sometimes, issues around religious sectarian discrimination, came to my attention.

As I said in an earlier post, I challenged those who bemoaned “the hard hat” image of engineering. I respect their argument, that those who would prefer a career in clean conditions, might find this unattractive, but equally for those who would like a more active outdoor career the hard hat is a positive symbol. Academic proficiency in maths is important to some engineering roles, but not to others, yet the career is presented by some as a diet of equations, with a few site visits thrown in. Why are there so few women in IT, which is conducted in clean conditions? Looking to the future we just have to nurture upcoming talent, which means creating aspiration among young people and removing myths that might deter them. As I see it this is essential element of the IET’s charitable remit.

There is a separate argument which we shouldn’t conflate with diversity, about the quality, relevance and availability of technical information, local or specialist events etc. On this basis you are perfectly entitled to complain that the offering isn’t meeting your needs, lobby for change and ultimately choose to renounce membership and/or join the IEEE if you wish. The IET is incredibly fortunate to enjoy the level of commitment and support that is has from its members, including your contributions over the years.

In the IETs defence, I would observe that the breadth of specialist interests held by members is enormous and overlaps with almost every more specialised body. It is a pre-eminent source of specialist advice in some of those, but can’t sensibly replicate the specialist expertise of others. Historically Learned Societies fragmented into specialist interest groups, with many becoming unsustainable. If the IET isn’t enabling “technical special interest groups” to thrive, then it is missing a trick and needs to improve.

I don’t know if there is any bias towards the “special interest” of female participation, at the expense of a technical focus? I think that this is a false dichotomy, but choices have to be made about resources and volunteer action can make quite a difference. So if female activists, post more on social media, their views will predominate. I don’t have any problem with that personally. As I said in an earlier post if the problem no longer exists then we should stop talking about it.

I was sad to see the closure of The Teacher Building. Although I only used it a couple of times, I was immediately struck how it wasn’t being used as a “home” by local members. My immediate thought apart from the obvious was, “younger members could have smart drinks receptions or similar”. I only became aware of its closure after the decision.

I wrote the following about a year ago

Following the closure of the Teacher Building, I sincerely hope that we are considering, maintaining a symbolic physical presence in Scotland.

I am not myself a Scot and have only been an occasional visitor over the years, although by chance Skills Development Scotland (part of the Scottish Government) were kind enough to invite me and a colleague to attend a conference in Glasgow last year. My previous employer also derived 5-10% of its turnover in Scotland with the CEO and serval other directors of Scottish origin. I always maintained close relationships with our Scottish Region with offices in Glasgow & Edinburgh, who recruited and trained Engineers and Technicians. Without this presence we would not have been included in public sector contract tender lists, or had such strong relationships in the private sector.

I am not in a position to assess the value of an IET office in Scotland, but I think that we should seek to engage strongly with the Scottish Government as well as Academic and Corporate Partners located there. There are important differences, not always great, but keenly felt north of the border. The political completion, economy and national priorities are different. Importantly also, perhaps the scale is more manageable and inertia less, which may allow them to make progress more quickly in areas we might like to support (such as revitalising technical apprenticeships for example).

Whatever contribution the Teacher Building has or hasn’t made, its symbolic presence was important.

You have clearly earned the right to make your own decision, which does not in my opinion diminish your 30+ years of service, or disqualify you from participating/contributing, since local many events are “open access” anyway. If as you say your decision is carefully considered, then I hope you recognise that the diversity issue is major one for society generally. The IET can either be dragged “kicking and screaming” along that path, or exercise moral leadership. I think that it has made the right choice in that respect. The balance of “noise” on social media at any particular point in time, should not be guiding us, but if a young woman becomes an engineer or technician as a result, that is to be celebrated.
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0 Roy Bowdler over 6 years ago

John your counterpoint about male representation in Nursing is perfectly valid. I hope that my contribution widened the discussion into all forms of negative stereotyping and cultural bias. Research has shown that the current education system which prepares people for engineering career is disadvantaging young “White British” and “Black British” males from lower social classes the most. When I worked in Glasgow sometimes, issues around religious sectarian discrimination, came to my attention.

As I said in an earlier post, I challenged those who bemoaned “the hard hat” image of engineering. I respect their argument, that those who would prefer a career in clean conditions, might find this unattractive, but equally for those who would like a more active outdoor career the hard hat is a positive symbol. Academic proficiency in maths is important to some engineering roles, but not to others, yet the career is presented by some as a diet of equations, with a few site visits thrown in. Why are there so few women in IT, which is conducted in clean conditions? Looking to the future we just have to nurture upcoming talent, which means creating aspiration among young people and removing myths that might deter them. As I see it this is essential element of the IET’s charitable remit.

There is a separate argument which we shouldn’t conflate with diversity, about the quality, relevance and availability of technical information, local or specialist events etc. On this basis you are perfectly entitled to complain that the offering isn’t meeting your needs, lobby for change and ultimately choose to renounce membership and/or join the IEEE if you wish. The IET is incredibly fortunate to enjoy the level of commitment and support that is has from its members, including your contributions over the years.

In the IETs defence, I would observe that the breadth of specialist interests held by members is enormous and overlaps with almost every more specialised body. It is a pre-eminent source of specialist advice in some of those, but can’t sensibly replicate the specialist expertise of others. Historically Learned Societies fragmented into specialist interest groups, with many becoming unsustainable. If the IET isn’t enabling “technical special interest groups” to thrive, then it is missing a trick and needs to improve.

I don’t know if there is any bias towards the “special interest” of female participation, at the expense of a technical focus? I think that this is a false dichotomy, but choices have to be made about resources and volunteer action can make quite a difference. So if female activists, post more on social media, their views will predominate. I don’t have any problem with that personally. As I said in an earlier post if the problem no longer exists then we should stop talking about it.

I was sad to see the closure of The Teacher Building. Although I only used it a couple of times, I was immediately struck how it wasn’t being used as a “home” by local members. My immediate thought apart from the obvious was, “younger members could have smart drinks receptions or similar”. I only became aware of its closure after the decision.

I wrote the following about a year ago

Following the closure of the Teacher Building, I sincerely hope that we are considering, maintaining a symbolic physical presence in Scotland.

I am not myself a Scot and have only been an occasional visitor over the years, although by chance Skills Development Scotland (part of the Scottish Government) were kind enough to invite me and a colleague to attend a conference in Glasgow last year. My previous employer also derived 5-10% of its turnover in Scotland with the CEO and serval other directors of Scottish origin. I always maintained close relationships with our Scottish Region with offices in Glasgow & Edinburgh, who recruited and trained Engineers and Technicians. Without this presence we would not have been included in public sector contract tender lists, or had such strong relationships in the private sector.

I am not in a position to assess the value of an IET office in Scotland, but I think that we should seek to engage strongly with the Scottish Government as well as Academic and Corporate Partners located there. There are important differences, not always great, but keenly felt north of the border. The political completion, economy and national priorities are different. Importantly also, perhaps the scale is more manageable and inertia less, which may allow them to make progress more quickly in areas we might like to support (such as revitalising technical apprenticeships for example).

Whatever contribution the Teacher Building has or hasn’t made, its symbolic presence was important.

You have clearly earned the right to make your own decision, which does not in my opinion diminish your 30+ years of service, or disqualify you from participating/contributing, since local many events are “open access” anyway. If as you say your decision is carefully considered, then I hope you recognise that the diversity issue is major one for society generally. The IET can either be dragged “kicking and screaming” along that path, or exercise moral leadership. I think that it has made the right choice in that respect. The balance of “noise” on social media at any particular point in time, should not be guiding us, but if a young woman becomes an engineer or technician as a result, that is to be celebrated.
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Where is the IET going?

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