Hi,


Yes that all makes very good sense. The schools side is interesting, the point I always make in schools these days is that engineers' salaries are very similar to any other profession: accountants, doctors, legal professionals, teachers. (There was a very nice survey that showed this recently in one of the major newspapers, but of course I can't find it now I'm looking for it!). I do also put it into perspective by being open about the fact that all professions, including engineering, cover a huge range of salaries.


When I get the inevitable 15 year old boy (always a boy interestingly, and always 15-16) who tries to show off by saying "yeah. but it's not like you can become a multi-millionaire" i point out Bill Gates, Steve Jobs, and also my previous boss (and superb engineering role model) who had an underground helipad built to keep his personal helicopter in.  


That said, personally I do tend to treat it as a side issue of the main topic that engineering can be fascinating and rewarding career that can give you the opportunity to work in genuinely innovative and creative teams in areas that interest you. And just throw in, almost as an "obviously..." statement, the parity with other professions. Whether that's actually the best way to approach it or not I don't know - I suppose it's just how I've always approached my own career.


Regarding a good salary survey helping engineers judge where they are, I agree provided that - to echo your point - the level of detail is good enough. Back when I used to run a team I would, of course, regularly have one or two engineers who would come to me and say "why aren't I being paid more?" So we'd have a chat and I'd explain what they needed to do to be paid more - which was usually to take on more responsibility. Often I find salary surveys don't get that across very well - that it's not expert knowledge that commands high salaries, it's (very simplistically) willingness to accept broad responsibility. (Rightly or wrongly.) So what would be really good (sort of thinking aloud here, or at least thinking as I type!) is a salary survey that explains WHY some roles have higher salaries than others. That could really help people decide what they want to do.


Which in a lot of cases the decision is: would you rather have a high salary, or have a quiet life? ?


So here's a thought following on from your thought - as well as (i.e. interlinked to) a salary survey, how about a role survey? Something that helps engineers at all stages in their careers who are thinking "I feel like I need a change, starting from here where could I go?" This might be to, as you suggest, find new routes to a higher salary, but also sometimes an individual might be happy to have LESS salary, but a chance to move out of London, or to spend less time in airports and hotels, or less time in the freezing rain on site at 3am, or to spend more time with the family, or to do something more technically interesting etc etc And just occasionally even come across a role which pays more but is lower stress! 


Interesting.


Cheers,


Andy

Hi,


Yes that all makes very good sense. The schools side is interesting, the point I always make in schools these days is that engineers' salaries are very similar to any other profession: accountants, doctors, legal professionals, teachers. (There was a very nice survey that showed this recently in one of the major newspapers, but of course I can't find it now I'm looking for it!). I do also put it into perspective by being open about the fact that all professions, including engineering, cover a huge range of salaries.


When I get the inevitable 15 year old boy (always a boy interestingly, and always 15-16) who tries to show off by saying "yeah. but it's not like you can become a multi-millionaire" i point out Bill Gates, Steve Jobs, and also my previous boss (and superb engineering role model) who had an underground helipad built to keep his personal helicopter in.  


That said, personally I do tend to treat it as a side issue of the main topic that engineering can be fascinating and rewarding career that can give you the opportunity to work in genuinely innovative and creative teams in areas that interest you. And just throw in, almost as an "obviously..." statement, the parity with other professions. Whether that's actually the best way to approach it or not I don't know - I suppose it's just how I've always approached my own career.


Regarding a good salary survey helping engineers judge where they are, I agree provided that - to echo your point - the level of detail is good enough. Back when I used to run a team I would, of course, regularly have one or two engineers who would come to me and say "why aren't I being paid more?" So we'd have a chat and I'd explain what they needed to do to be paid more - which was usually to take on more responsibility. Often I find salary surveys don't get that across very well - that it's not expert knowledge that commands high salaries, it's (very simplistically) willingness to accept broad responsibility. (Rightly or wrongly.) So what would be really good (sort of thinking aloud here, or at least thinking as I type!) is a salary survey that explains WHY some roles have higher salaries than others. That could really help people decide what they want to do.


Which in a lot of cases the decision is: would you rather have a high salary, or have a quiet life? ?


So here's a thought following on from your thought - as well as (i.e. interlinked to) a salary survey, how about a role survey? Something that helps engineers at all stages in their careers who are thinking "I feel like I need a change, starting from here where could I go?" This might be to, as you suggest, find new routes to a higher salary, but also sometimes an individual might be happy to have LESS salary, but a chance to move out of London, or to spend less time in airports and hotels, or less time in the freezing rain on site at 3am, or to spend more time with the family, or to do something more technically interesting etc etc And just occasionally even come across a role which pays more but is lower stress! 


Interesting.


Cheers,


Andy