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Career advice from senior or retired engineers

The purpose of this forum is highlight information from senior or retired engineers that will provide advice to new people entering the profession.

The recent published articles by the IET:-

"Too old to be an engineer" in the E&T July 2019 magazine

"100,000 older workers kicked out of IBM, as company craved Googles Cool image" published August 1, 2019

started me thinking about the need to communicate advice on avoiding speed bumps during one's carrier.

During my 45+ years in engineer I have been laid off twice -once when I was 28 and again at 63.

I have worked for 9 companies in three countries where 8 of those companies are no longer in existence.

Total time out of work has not exceeded 6 weeks.

I have made three complete changes in related technology/products.

Here is an example of the advice I received early on in my career:- "The young engineer knows the rules, the old engineer knows the exceptions" -- meaning even if one thinks one knows the answer ask the senior engineer if there is better solution.

Peter Brooks MIET

Palm Bay Florida USA

Parents

0 Andy Millar over 4 years ago
Here's a start, in no particular order:
The senior engineer doesn't necessarily know more than you. But they probably appear less worried about what they don't know, and more confident about what they do know. In meetings watch and learn how they handle questions where they don't know the answers: "I'll need to ask my colleagues about that" "I'll need to come back to you on that" "that's outside my area, I suggest we ask Alex". No-one minds you not knowing everything as long as you find ways of getting the right information to the right person in the end.

When dealing with colleagues or clients show you're on their side. Show that you understand that they have challenges and that, as far as you can, you're prepared to help. That way, when you're their problem - when you have to break bad news that you're going to make their project late, or more expensive, or just more difficult - they will be far more sympathetic. They'll know you will have already made your best efforts to avoid them having a problem.

Break bad news early. Even if it's only "I'm not sure yet, but I think we may have a problem". No-one likes last minute surprises. It's very common for inexperienced engineers to be concerned that they will get into to trouble if they announce a problem (especially if they think it's their fault!). Trust me, you'll only get in serious trouble if you leave it until it's really expensive or publicly embarrassing before you reveal it. Everyone makes mistakes, it's how you handle it that's important.

If you do have bad news to break, show - as far as you can - proposed solutions, especially those that show you will take at least some responsibility for turning the situation around. "I've found a problem, and I don't know what to do about it" is better than nothing. But "I've found a problem, and I wanted your opinion on whether I should do a, b or c. I thought c because..." is excellent.

If there's something you don't know, look it up. If you can't find it, or still don't understand it, ask. Senior engineers (at least, those it's worth you listening to) will never mind being asked - even if it's something you think you "should" know. The only time it's annoying is when it's something you could have found for yourself from a 30 second Google.

If a senior engineer says "you should know that" and walks off, or says "when you've got more experience you'll know that" and walks off, or puts you down or ignores you in a meeting, then that's their problem. Good engineers are never self-centred, arrogant, or patronising - and the colleagues of these engineers will know exactly what they're like. You're not going to change them, just go and find someone more sensible to talk to.

If an opportunity comes up, volunteer for it. The daftest grumbling I hear from junior engineers is "it's unfair that Sam gets all the promotions, just because they volunteer for everything". Er, well, yes - if someone shows they are interested in learning about and trying new things of course they're going to be first in line for the more interesting work!

But balance that with being fair to yourself. It's fine to say "I'm sorry, it's been fine working the last two Saturdays to get the project done, I appreciate the overtime payment for it, and actually I've learned a lot from it, but next Saturday's my partner's birthday - it's going to be really difficult if you want to me to work then. How about if we...?" It's bringing some of the above points together - you appreciate there's a problem, and you're willing to take responsibility for it. But there is a boundary. In this situation make sure you're honest - in a slightly different case it's better to say "I'm really tired and need that Saturday off" than to make up an excuse - which will get found out and then you've lost all your credibility.

If you feel you're being taken advantage of then say so - but remember there are two points of view here. Be prepared to listen as well as putting your side across. Be careful about listening to your mates here - it is easy for them to sit on the sidelines and say "your manager's out of order, that's against the law, they should give you compensation for that". Take advice from someone senior who you trust - preferably in your company as they will probably understand both sides of the situation.

Following on from this remember that very many engineering managers have had no management training at all. And are human beings. So sometimes they will be thoughtless, or stressed, or just get their facts wrong. Be as patient with them as they probably have to be with you. But again having someone senior to talk to can be really useful - even though at times they may gently point out to you that actually you were the one being unreasonable this time...

Best of all, show an interest in shadowing senior staff - including non-engineers, for example accompanying sales staff while they are negotiating can really help you put your work in context. And show you how to handle clients. When you first ask about this don't be surprised if you get the answer "it's a good idea, but I'm not sure how we could make that work". Just keep gently showing to as many people as possible that you are interested, and sooner or later they'll need someone to support a visit to a client or to site, and remember that you were interested.

And a very simple way to get senior staff keen to you have you around them is to know how to work those tedious company systems we all have to live with. The document control system. The parts ordering system. The project database. Some senior staff get into these things, but many (most?) absolutely loath them, and would love to have someone around who can take that hassle off them. And who can generally make life easier for them, which brings me to the final point:

Get friendly with the office manager. And the receptionist. And the caretaker. And the cleaners. And everyone else who most of the company staff ignore. Even the IT team (I never said all of this would be easy!) Then when your boss finds the printer's not working at 16:45 and there's an urgent report to get out (or it's you trying to get it out) you'll be the one person in the building who can ask for help and get it. All it takes is an occasional hello and a chat about the weather and you've got a team of superheros on your side (while everyone else has supervillains thwarting their every move!)

Look forward to seeing what else people come up with.

Cheers,

Andy
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0 Andy Millar over 4 years ago
Here's a start, in no particular order:
The senior engineer doesn't necessarily know more than you. But they probably appear less worried about what they don't know, and more confident about what they do know. In meetings watch and learn how they handle questions where they don't know the answers: "I'll need to ask my colleagues about that" "I'll need to come back to you on that" "that's outside my area, I suggest we ask Alex". No-one minds you not knowing everything as long as you find ways of getting the right information to the right person in the end.

When dealing with colleagues or clients show you're on their side. Show that you understand that they have challenges and that, as far as you can, you're prepared to help. That way, when you're their problem - when you have to break bad news that you're going to make their project late, or more expensive, or just more difficult - they will be far more sympathetic. They'll know you will have already made your best efforts to avoid them having a problem.

Break bad news early. Even if it's only "I'm not sure yet, but I think we may have a problem". No-one likes last minute surprises. It's very common for inexperienced engineers to be concerned that they will get into to trouble if they announce a problem (especially if they think it's their fault!). Trust me, you'll only get in serious trouble if you leave it until it's really expensive or publicly embarrassing before you reveal it. Everyone makes mistakes, it's how you handle it that's important.

If you do have bad news to break, show - as far as you can - proposed solutions, especially those that show you will take at least some responsibility for turning the situation around. "I've found a problem, and I don't know what to do about it" is better than nothing. But "I've found a problem, and I wanted your opinion on whether I should do a, b or c. I thought c because..." is excellent.

If there's something you don't know, look it up. If you can't find it, or still don't understand it, ask. Senior engineers (at least, those it's worth you listening to) will never mind being asked - even if it's something you think you "should" know. The only time it's annoying is when it's something you could have found for yourself from a 30 second Google.

If a senior engineer says "you should know that" and walks off, or says "when you've got more experience you'll know that" and walks off, or puts you down or ignores you in a meeting, then that's their problem. Good engineers are never self-centred, arrogant, or patronising - and the colleagues of these engineers will know exactly what they're like. You're not going to change them, just go and find someone more sensible to talk to.

If an opportunity comes up, volunteer for it. The daftest grumbling I hear from junior engineers is "it's unfair that Sam gets all the promotions, just because they volunteer for everything". Er, well, yes - if someone shows they are interested in learning about and trying new things of course they're going to be first in line for the more interesting work!

But balance that with being fair to yourself. It's fine to say "I'm sorry, it's been fine working the last two Saturdays to get the project done, I appreciate the overtime payment for it, and actually I've learned a lot from it, but next Saturday's my partner's birthday - it's going to be really difficult if you want to me to work then. How about if we...?" It's bringing some of the above points together - you appreciate there's a problem, and you're willing to take responsibility for it. But there is a boundary. In this situation make sure you're honest - in a slightly different case it's better to say "I'm really tired and need that Saturday off" than to make up an excuse - which will get found out and then you've lost all your credibility.

If you feel you're being taken advantage of then say so - but remember there are two points of view here. Be prepared to listen as well as putting your side across. Be careful about listening to your mates here - it is easy for them to sit on the sidelines and say "your manager's out of order, that's against the law, they should give you compensation for that". Take advice from someone senior who you trust - preferably in your company as they will probably understand both sides of the situation.

Following on from this remember that very many engineering managers have had no management training at all. And are human beings. So sometimes they will be thoughtless, or stressed, or just get their facts wrong. Be as patient with them as they probably have to be with you. But again having someone senior to talk to can be really useful - even though at times they may gently point out to you that actually you were the one being unreasonable this time...

Best of all, show an interest in shadowing senior staff - including non-engineers, for example accompanying sales staff while they are negotiating can really help you put your work in context. And show you how to handle clients. When you first ask about this don't be surprised if you get the answer "it's a good idea, but I'm not sure how we could make that work". Just keep gently showing to as many people as possible that you are interested, and sooner or later they'll need someone to support a visit to a client or to site, and remember that you were interested.

And a very simple way to get senior staff keen to you have you around them is to know how to work those tedious company systems we all have to live with. The document control system. The parts ordering system. The project database. Some senior staff get into these things, but many (most?) absolutely loath them, and would love to have someone around who can take that hassle off them. And who can generally make life easier for them, which brings me to the final point:

Get friendly with the office manager. And the receptionist. And the caretaker. And the cleaners. And everyone else who most of the company staff ignore. Even the IT team (I never said all of this would be easy!) Then when your boss finds the printer's not working at 16:45 and there's an urgent report to get out (or it's you trying to get it out) you'll be the one person in the building who can ask for help and get it. All it takes is an occasional hello and a chat about the weather and you've got a team of superheros on your side (while everyone else has supervillains thwarting their every move!)

Look forward to seeing what else people come up with.

Cheers,

Andy
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