This discussion is locked.

You cannot post a reply to this discussion. If you have a question start a new discussion

Should non-payment of a mobile phone bill be a criminal offence?

It used to be known as abstraction of electricity on a landline telephone network but it might be better referred to as abstraction of EM waves or photons, depending on how you view the wave particle duality, on a mobile network.

A friend racked up a mobile phone bill of nearly £2000 as a result of exceeding his data allowance whilst abroad back in 2017. He changed his network provider then cancelled the direct debit resulting in this bill going unpaid to today. It's not actually illegal to do this as all the old network provider can do is demand the payment, as a civil matter, and ruin his credit rating. He claims that unlike an unpaid gas or electricity bill, an unpaid phone bill has not consumed any of the earth's precious natural resources apart from a bit of electricity that cost only a tiny fraction of the value of the bill.

A local bobby disagrees and says that theft is theft regardless of whether it's a tangible object or a non-tangible service, so the criminal should be brought to justice and jailed.

Does the IET have a position regarding the legal status of unpaid phone bills and whether or not refusal to pay should be a criminal offence?

Parents

0 Roy Bowdler over 5 years ago

Andy,

Not quite, but a couple of relevant situations that I had some historic involvement in.

Two employees of different businesses colluded in a “sweetheart deal”. One placed an order purporting to be a Director authorised to do so, induced by a promise of business in return which never materialised. Despite the order being repudiated when it was discovered (it was for a subscription to a database), the debt was enforced and passed to a “no win no fee” lawyer. Neither dishonest party was prosecuted or the police involved, although the placer of the order was dismissed.

Workers were paid for hours worked and a productivity bonus on the basis of falsified documents (similar to an expenses fiddle). A manager was potentially complicit in “turning a blind eye” , so another manager reported it to a much higher level in the organisation as a “whistle blower”. This left other managers in the chain of command between “under a cloud” which they understandably resented, when it became clear through the circumstances what had happened. I can’t say much more because it set off a chain of events leading to a criminal conviction and parliamentary inquiry, completely unrelated to the original “fiddle”, which was dealt with through employer’s disciplinary procedures.

I engaged a self-employed builder to work on a domestic extension, when I ended his engagement on the basis of poor performance, he came round some days later, according to witnesses seemingly under the influence of something and smashed some windows in revenge. The Police were involved and he was prosecuted, but he only entered a guilty plea at the last possible minute. We never saw a penny of the compensation ordered by the court.

In general, my observation is that the Police or DPP, would not wish to get involved, or in many circumstances a wronged party wish to involve them, even if there is evidence of dishonesty, when the issue can be resolved by other means, ie “it’s a civil matter”. However, I have seen prosecutions for minor “fingers in the till”, “theft from work” and fraud offences, where an employer has wanted to pursue that course of action.
Cancel
Vote Up 0 Vote Down

Cancel

Reply

0 Roy Bowdler over 5 years ago

Andy,

Not quite, but a couple of relevant situations that I had some historic involvement in.

Two employees of different businesses colluded in a “sweetheart deal”. One placed an order purporting to be a Director authorised to do so, induced by a promise of business in return which never materialised. Despite the order being repudiated when it was discovered (it was for a subscription to a database), the debt was enforced and passed to a “no win no fee” lawyer. Neither dishonest party was prosecuted or the police involved, although the placer of the order was dismissed.

Workers were paid for hours worked and a productivity bonus on the basis of falsified documents (similar to an expenses fiddle). A manager was potentially complicit in “turning a blind eye” , so another manager reported it to a much higher level in the organisation as a “whistle blower”. This left other managers in the chain of command between “under a cloud” which they understandably resented, when it became clear through the circumstances what had happened. I can’t say much more because it set off a chain of events leading to a criminal conviction and parliamentary inquiry, completely unrelated to the original “fiddle”, which was dealt with through employer’s disciplinary procedures.

I engaged a self-employed builder to work on a domestic extension, when I ended his engagement on the basis of poor performance, he came round some days later, according to witnesses seemingly under the influence of something and smashed some windows in revenge. The Police were involved and he was prosecuted, but he only entered a guilty plea at the last possible minute. We never saw a penny of the compensation ordered by the court.

In general, my observation is that the Police or DPP, would not wish to get involved, or in many circumstances a wronged party wish to involve them, even if there is evidence of dishonesty, when the issue can be resolved by other means, ie “it’s a civil matter”. However, I have seen prosecutions for minor “fingers in the till”, “theft from work” and fraud offences, where an employer has wanted to pursue that course of action.
Cancel
Vote Up 0 Vote Down

Cancel

Children

No Data

Should non-payment of a mobile phone bill be a criminal offence?

Community Rules & Guidelines