The IET is carrying out some important updates between 17-30 April and all of our websites will be view only. For more information, read this Announcement

This discussion is locked.
You cannot post a reply to this discussion. If you have a question start a new discussion

Should non-payment of a mobile phone bill be a criminal offence?

It used to be known as abstraction of electricity on a landline telephone network but it might be better referred to as abstraction of EM waves or photons, depending on how you view the wave particle duality, on a mobile network.


A friend racked up a mobile phone bill of nearly £2000 as a result of exceeding his data allowance whilst abroad back in 2017. He changed his network provider then cancelled the direct debit resulting in this bill going unpaid to today. It's not actually illegal to do this as all the old network provider can do is demand the payment, as a civil matter, and ruin his credit rating. He claims that unlike an unpaid gas or electricity bill, an unpaid phone bill has not consumed any of the earth's precious natural resources apart from a bit of electricity that cost only a tiny fraction of the value of the bill.


A local bobby disagrees and says that theft is theft regardless of whether it's a tangible object or a non-tangible service, so the criminal should be brought to justice and jailed.


Does the IET have a position regarding the legal status of unpaid phone bills and whether or not refusal to pay should be a criminal offence?
  • Good morning Rob Eagle,

    What do you need an opinion on?
  • Morning Benyamin


    I am looking for opinions on my post entitled "Straw Poll" in the "Ask the Community" forum.


    Rob

  • Andy Millar:


    On the other hand, in a previous employment I remember our company solicitor coming in to give the senior management team a briefing on what constituted theft from a company, and saying we should aim to start criminal proceedings against any member of staff who took a pen home from the office. When we said "don't be daft" (and probably "life's too short") he affected to look scared and to said "I'm going to check whether my car still has it's wheels on since you encourage your employees to steal". Hmmm...I'd say these things aren't as black and white as some lawyers (employed and bar-room!) would like them to be. Which is why good lawyers can charge as much as they do. If any Ricardo lawyers are reading this I will admit that I do use work pens for home purposes, I also use home pens for work purposes...

    The NHS has its own fraud squad staffed by many former police officers - allegedly asked to resign from the police due to a vindictive attitude or a chip on their shoulder - that cracks down even on minor trivial instances of stolen stationery or fiddled expenses claims in order to justify their existence and put the frighteners on staff. 


    Not so long ago they gave a presentation at a local hospital about staff evading car parking charges committing a criminal offence - as opposed to it being a civil offence or a disciplinary matter. Investigations revealed that it is a criminal offence of fraud (overpayment of salary) because the car parking costs are deducted from staff salaries. If however they were paid by direct debit from a bank account then it will only be a civil offence of non-payment of a service charge.
  • Going slightly #offtopic but on the same theme:


    A colleague in a previous employment was overpaid on their overtime. Someone in payroll misplaced the decimal point and they were paid £104 per hour instead of £10.40 for their overtime hours which meant a huge £624 (should have been £64.20) extra in their pay packet for the month. This happened on three occasions (for three months in a row) overpaying them a total sum of around £1500. On every occasion my colleague contacted the payroll dept to tell them that they had been overpaid, each time being told by the payroll staff that they would sort it out and reclaim it from the next months salary. 


    My colleague was also leaving the company (the month after the last over-payment) and for the whole of their last week they were ringing and emailing payroll to tell them that they still needed to reclaim the over-payment.


    They never did...


    So was my colleague a criminal for keeping the money they overpaid or the payroll dept for making the mistake in the first place and then failing to recover the monies? 


    Bear in mind that this happened over 20 years ago now and to date the colleague has never been contacted with a view to recovering the overpaid salary! 


  • I vaguely remember there's something about you need to "have made reasonable efforts" to return property. Which it sounds like they did in this case! I looked at this quite a few years ago when a mail order company sent me something by mistake.


    I did discover early this year that if HMRC give you a £6,500 rebate by mistake they do ask for it back - but very nicely! Shame they asked the day before my birthday though... Fortunately I hadn't spent it as I thought at the time it was FAR too good to be true.


    Cheers,


    Andy