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Everyone's journey is different, small goals make up the larger ones!

Former Community Member over 4 years ago

I saw this on LinkedIn

I think of this great achievement that can inspire engineers.

David Gillespie CEng MIET SMIEEE

Dropped out of school at 15 to join the Army. Got a trade, then a job, then started taking my hashtag#professionaldevelopment seriously and joined the Institution of Engineering and Technology (IET), started at the beginning. Lived the Engineering Council spec, saw the education and development gaps. Worked up from an open degree with The Open University to my current industrial PhD with University of Strathclyde. Everyone's journey is different, small goals make up the larger ones. Find a team that will lift you up and the sky is the limit.

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0 Roy Bowdler over 4 years ago

Colin,

I won’t pursue Churchill’s naval connections ?, but in the mid 1970s, most 16 year olds, left school and went to work. In Comprehensive Schools with a Secondary Modern heritage , rates of “staying on” for A levels and subsequently going on to university were very low. In fact prior to 1972 the “normal” school leaving age was 15. The situation was somewhat different in more affluent areas where a higher proportion of parents had “middle-class aspirations” and for Grammar Schools with selective entry via the 11+ exam.

Technical Apprenticeships were widely available in most areas of the country. Some were entirely craft (ie “on the tools”) focussed , others intentionally sought those with good O Levels (now GCSEs) for training as more technically advanced “technicians”, engineers and often ultimately managers. City and Guilds “T” (Technician) courses were highly respected and a Full Technological Certificate was the pinnacle of those. It was considered broadly comparable with a Higher National Certificate. A qualification that had at an earlier time been “acceptable” for Chartered Engineer, but by then was the expectation for Tech Eng (later IEng). However, TEC (later BTEC) started to replace the “T” courses and HNCs which had been awarded by a number of different organisations, including some professional institutions from the late 1970s.

Within this group of former apprentices from the 70s and 80s, now in late career are many who found pathways to senior technical and managerial leadership. For some in that group, part of that pathway involved some additional academic achievement, but there are some seriously high achieving people, with no qualification beyond a Full Technological Certificate or similar.

I’m sorry for that excursion, for the benefit of other readers and to anyone who doesn’t think that its relevant. Some may even disagree with my narrative (feel free!) or wish to share their perspective.

In its current form IEng as offered by the IET based on UK-SPEC, IEng is competence based. So irrespective of formal or academic qualifications, a member of the IET needs to demonstrate proven practice as a “managing engineer”. This means that someone who has only worked “on the tools” is likely to have some important “gaps” , most typically around the types of technical contribution they have been able to make or responsibility that they have exercised or the extent that they have been able to contribute to management. The IET does take into account work-based learning, where academic qualifications aren’t ideal, but you still have to illustrate knowledge and understanding however you acquired it. Qualifications can make this easier to assess and your C&G FTC, might have been recognised at the time you gained it by an institution, in effect “ticking a box”.

If using IEng as development target or template works well for you, which it sounds like it might, then good luck. My point and that of the professor who I quoted, is that some assumptions made by the professional engineering community, come from a particular perspective , which tends to focus on relative status and value “academic” achievement more highly than “vocational” (or practical). I won’t debate the reasons for that here, although they are fairly obvious. However, what is important to me is that you as a vastly experienced Technician (I assume) are respected for what you have achieved, not what you haven’t. Many of those who gained Full Technological Certificates, would be at least the equal of many of today’s university graduates, but the pathways readily available to the different generations have changed.
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0 Roy Bowdler over 4 years ago

Colin,

I won’t pursue Churchill’s naval connections ?, but in the mid 1970s, most 16 year olds, left school and went to work. In Comprehensive Schools with a Secondary Modern heritage , rates of “staying on” for A levels and subsequently going on to university were very low. In fact prior to 1972 the “normal” school leaving age was 15. The situation was somewhat different in more affluent areas where a higher proportion of parents had “middle-class aspirations” and for Grammar Schools with selective entry via the 11+ exam.

Technical Apprenticeships were widely available in most areas of the country. Some were entirely craft (ie “on the tools”) focussed , others intentionally sought those with good O Levels (now GCSEs) for training as more technically advanced “technicians”, engineers and often ultimately managers. City and Guilds “T” (Technician) courses were highly respected and a Full Technological Certificate was the pinnacle of those. It was considered broadly comparable with a Higher National Certificate. A qualification that had at an earlier time been “acceptable” for Chartered Engineer, but by then was the expectation for Tech Eng (later IEng). However, TEC (later BTEC) started to replace the “T” courses and HNCs which had been awarded by a number of different organisations, including some professional institutions from the late 1970s.

Within this group of former apprentices from the 70s and 80s, now in late career are many who found pathways to senior technical and managerial leadership. For some in that group, part of that pathway involved some additional academic achievement, but there are some seriously high achieving people, with no qualification beyond a Full Technological Certificate or similar.

I’m sorry for that excursion, for the benefit of other readers and to anyone who doesn’t think that its relevant. Some may even disagree with my narrative (feel free!) or wish to share their perspective.

In its current form IEng as offered by the IET based on UK-SPEC, IEng is competence based. So irrespective of formal or academic qualifications, a member of the IET needs to demonstrate proven practice as a “managing engineer”. This means that someone who has only worked “on the tools” is likely to have some important “gaps” , most typically around the types of technical contribution they have been able to make or responsibility that they have exercised or the extent that they have been able to contribute to management. The IET does take into account work-based learning, where academic qualifications aren’t ideal, but you still have to illustrate knowledge and understanding however you acquired it. Qualifications can make this easier to assess and your C&G FTC, might have been recognised at the time you gained it by an institution, in effect “ticking a box”.

If using IEng as development target or template works well for you, which it sounds like it might, then good luck. My point and that of the professor who I quoted, is that some assumptions made by the professional engineering community, come from a particular perspective , which tends to focus on relative status and value “academic” achievement more highly than “vocational” (or practical). I won’t debate the reasons for that here, although they are fairly obvious. However, what is important to me is that you as a vastly experienced Technician (I assume) are respected for what you have achieved, not what you haven’t. Many of those who gained Full Technological Certificates, would be at least the equal of many of today’s university graduates, but the pathways readily available to the different generations have changed.
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