An old solution to an overcrowding problem?

They use these in Europe quite widely. I have been on such trains in France, Belgium and the Netherlands.

Alasdair

That's the thing with Londoners - they certainly know how to pack up a carriage. It's all seems a bit cosy if your not used to it, until you have the pleasure of the Indian rail system, where they really, really know how to pack up a train carriage - and of course, they have double decker as well  - so once you hit the super dense crush loadings, you just use the roof  - simples


Regards


OMS

Alasdair Anderson:

They use these in Europe quite widely. I have been on such trains in France, Belgium and the Netherlands.

Alasdair

They also have double decker trains through the Metro in Paris too! I've been on one that was very 'Steampunkesque' with it's copper coloured fixtures and fittings etc. 

I've also been on a double decker train from Zurich to Bern in Switzerland. It was like being a child again watching the world go by from the top deck...?

As a Swiss resident double deck trains are the norm. They also allow you to keep the trains and platforms short so the transit time from one platform to another is reduced. The timetabling in large stations is based on the time it will take a normal person with luggage to get from their train to a connecting train. 20 carriage trains are technically quite feasible but platform lengths and transit times make them impractical.


If only the UK had converted to the Continental loading gauge ?


Best regards


Roger

1949 Pathe News of the prototype here https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1a2K0TP1lxM


Remarkably these stayed in service until 1971! So maybe someone here has travelled on them? Really one-and-a-half deckers rather than double deckers, as Adrian Vaughan puts it in "Railway Blunders"* "passengers were akin to sardines in a tin" - not much social distancing in any direction including up and down!


When we're allowed out again a couple of these carriages are preserved, at least one on public view I think (although in pretty rough condition) at the Northamptonshire Ironstone Railway Trust.


Everything you could possibly want to know about Bullied Double Deckers here: http://dart75.tripod.com/bdds.htm


Cheers,


Andy

* A book I bought because it features the project that brought me into the rail industry in the first place! I couldn't resist it with that title...

OMS:

That's the thing with Londoners - they certainly know how to pack up a carriage. It's all seems a bit cosy if your not used to it

So maybe it's because I'm a Londoner... ? ? that my 'personal space' bubble is a lot smaller than other people's seem to be... ?.

Sure, Lisa - it's only once you start to move a bit north or west of the Capital, do you realise just how much personal space people like  - compared to the circle line, anyway


You can see the look on peoples faces when they've let a few tubes pass by  in the expectation that the next one won't be as busy and the dawning realization that to get anywhere, you've got to get on and properly fill up the carriage


As I said, if you ever get the opportunity to get on a train in India, then do it - super dense crush loads are something to behold in Mumbai - wear jeans though - not always a nice bunch of lads travelling on the trains


Regards


OMS

Roger Bryant:

. . .


If only the UK had converted to the Continental loading gauge ?


Best regards


Roger

That's the problem with being first. Others copy and improve. It is difficult to catch up because your designs are set in stone (literally).

Interesting picture, Lynsay. I would be inclined to describe this not as "double-deck" but "deck-and-a-half", if you excuse the cumbersome terminology. The upper layer compartments are interlaced with the lower ones by stealing headroom from the lower level and using it for seating volume for the other levels. I imagine this would increase seating capacity by around 50% compared with a regular single-deck carriage.


Thanks, Andy, for your interesting links. Overall I cannot see this as having been a popular layout.


Double-deck trains are popular in many other countries, but the problem in the UK is limited height to clear bridges. Nevertheless I understand that designs that would just about work with this limitation have been produced. The saloon heights would need to be reduced compared with regular trains, as they are for tube trains. The lower deck would be below platform height, so a step down to board the train. This lower height could not be applied over the bogeys so the ends of the carriages would be mainly stairways to the upper level. I doubt whether these arrangements would offer much more than 50% increase in seating capacity. There would be additional delays at stations, where upper deck passengers would funnel towards the stairs at carriage ends only. These delays would tend to offset the increase in seating capacity.


Overall it would be difficult to get double-deck trains to work well here, but I expect this possibility will be  revisited from time to time. In fact here are some proposals.

https://www.railway-technology.com/features/seeing-double-uk-ready-embrace-double-decker-trains/


It appears that the carriages are articulated, i.e. each bogey serves two carriages, so this helps lower-deck capacity.


Here are others, making the point about "dwell time" at stations.

https://www.independent.co.uk/travel/news-and-advice/how-double-decker-trains-would-improve-britains-railways-10184527.html

https://www.focustransport.org/2014/12/proposals-for-double-decker-trains-to.html


I'd be interested to see what the interiors might look like. Would the upper deck have bench seats for four abreast, served by a sunken footwell at one side, like on those old-style low-height double-deck buses? They were not popular with passengers or conductors.